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  #46  
Old 03-17-2012, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 256
I'm posting a follow up on this with more to come. I took it to the dealer and they assigned it to an old time mechanic to look at it. When I picked it up the service advisor let me actually speak to the mechanic. We had about 15 minutes together and I've got some interesting stuff.

First, he does not recommend any type of synthetic oil for the car. He was speaking to me off record and really did not feel like he was giving me the official Mercedes line. He said it did something to the seals and they all start leaking after a while. I use Chevron Delo and he said that was good oil, but he said he has had the best luck with Mobil diesel oil that has a picture of a truck on it. I have not looked for it yet, but that is what I am going to switch to. My other car which I had put in Mobil 1 synthetic is in fact now leaking. I think the process is irreversable. but I'm switching with both cars.

As far as the noise, he said it didn't matter whether the injecters had all been rebuilt, he said he has seen lots of them not right after rebuilt. He suggested I still loosen the pipes to them one at a time and see if the noise goes away. He also said that in the older engines carbon is an issue and that the engine will clack like that up until it gets hot and then it goes away (similar to mine). He suggested BG products to help this go away - he said multiple treatments may be necessary.

So far I have checked out the injectors and in fact the noise goes away when I disconnect either cylinder 1 or cylinder 2. So either I have two bad injectors nect to each other, two adjacent cylinders with carbon build-up, or some sort of IP timing issue to those two cylinders, but they don't ignite right after each other, so I don't think that is my problem.

Another issue might be ovaling that may go away as the piston and rings heat up and expand?

I changed out the injector from cyl 1 with cyl 5 and the clacking stayed with cyl 1, so it is not an injector

I either have a rod/piston issue that goes away when hot (don't think so though), a timing problem on that cylinder (I'll check overall timing, but don't think so either), carbon buildup there (might be I guess), or I see some bubbling from spilt fuel between the prechamber and head - so there is a leak there - would that cause a problem like this?

Also I guess I could have a head gasket issue between the two cylinders, but from I remember when I checked the pressures, nothing seemed out of place. I have to see where I put those numbers.

Any more ideas based on this new data?

Thanks

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  #47  
Old 03-17-2012, 05:48 PM
Mechanical Hyphochondriac
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 539
Okay...yes, changing to synthetic on an older car with old seals will cause already worn areas to leak. This happened with my front crankshaft seal. Synthetic protects better so I simply replaced seal and it still leaked?? The problem was a worn hub, which after being replaced, has not leaked since. Synthetic cleans deposits and lubes better. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck oil is the preferred oil for this engine an has been tested fine on an oil analysis at 10k miles between changes.

There may other causes for your issue but none of which are your oil. If you have a leak, change the seal. The guy sounds informed but he is wrong on this one. If you have a small leak and change over to synth, you'll likely have a larger leak.
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  #48  
Old 03-17-2012, 06:09 PM
Unofficial wormcan opener
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, MA
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitop View Post
I'm posting a follow up on this with more to come. I took it to the dealer and they assigned it to an old time mechanic to look at it. When I picked it up the service advisor let me actually speak to the mechanic. We had about 15 minutes together and I've got some interesting stuff.

First, he does not recommend any type of synthetic oil for the car. He was speaking to me off record and really did not feel like he was giving me the official Mercedes line. He said it did something to the seals and they all start leaking after a while. I use Chevron Delo and he said that was good oil, but he said he has had the best luck with Mobil diesel oil that has a picture of a truck on it. I have not looked for it yet, but that is what I am going to switch to. My other car which I had put in Mobil 1 synthetic is in fact now leaking. I think the process is irreversable. but I'm switching with both cars.

As far as the noise, he said it didn't matter whether the injecters had all been rebuilt, he said he has seen lots of them not right after rebuilt. He suggested I still loosen the pipes to them one at a time and see if the noise goes away. He also said that in the older engines carbon is an issue and that the engine will clack like that up until it gets hot and then it goes away (similar to mine). He suggested BG products to help this go away - he said multiple treatments may be necessary.

So far I have checked out the injectors and in fact the noise goes away when I disconnect either cylinder 1 or cylinder 2. So either I have two bad injectors nect to each other, two adjacent cylinders with carbon build-up, or some sort of IP timing issue to those two cylinders, but they don't ignite right after each other, so I don't think that is my problem.

Another issue might be ovaling that may go away as the piston and rings heat up and expand?

I changed out the injector from cyl 1 with cyl 5 and the clacking stayed with cyl 1, so it is not an injector

I either have a rod/piston issue that goes away when hot (don't think so though), a timing problem on that cylinder (I'll check overall timing, but don't think so either), carbon buildup there (might be I guess), or I see some bubbling from spilt fuel between the prechamber and head - so there is a leak there - would that cause a problem like this?

Also I guess I could have a head gasket issue between the two cylinders, but from I remember when I checked the pressures, nothing seemed out of place. I have to see where I put those numbers.

Any more ideas based on this new data?

Thanks
How many OM60X cars has he actually owned? Seals don't last forever even with dino oil. Many members have reported less lifter knock after using synthetic oil.

Brian's advice was spot on! I guess you are looking for a different explanation, good luck.

Could you please put your car in your signature so I don't have to go back and reread the entire thread to figure out what car we are talking about. It also makes it easier for anyone who may want to help you.
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  #49  
Old 03-17-2012, 10:36 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 256
Thanks for the responses on the oil, but, I'm not really focusing on oil as my issue. I posted the synthetic oil discussion I had with him as informational. I'm not out to change anyones mind on synthetic oil, but I just don't think that synthetic oil is the cure for my problem. It may make it better, but if everything was ok, running dino oil would not be the cause of my problem. Therefore, I'd like to get to root cause rather than mask the issue.

So in terms of the noise, would a leaky prechamber cause anything that would make the cylinder noisier or do the adjacent cylinders point to something like a head gasket?

Still haven't been able to find the compression measurements - I'm still looking.

Oh - one more thing, which makes no sense to me. I used a stethescope to try to listen to where the noise is coming from. It really does appear to be doming from the front of the engine. When I listen to the water pump or the timing cover, I hear the metalic noise the loudest. I have run it without the belt, so it can't be the water pump, regardless of it making noise, and I guess it could still be under the timing cover, but it would not stop when removing fuel from one of the injectors (at least I don't think so!)
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitop View Post
Any more ideas based on this new data?

Thanks
Could you please drive the vehicle for 250 miles before continuing to theorize on this issue?

I asked you to do it earlier in the thread and you brought it to mechanic who also didn't "solve" the problem.

Do not chase #1 or #2 until you do what I originally suggested.
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  #51  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:55 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Could you please drive the vehicle for 250 miles before continuing to theorize on this issue?

I asked you to do it earlier in the thread and you brought it to mechanic who also didn't "solve" the problem.

Do not chase #1 or #2 until you do what I originally suggested.

I do appreciate all of your help - and that is a sincere sentiment. I asked for help on this issue and you willingly chipped in.

You had suggested that I needed to let the injectors settle in for 250 miles. The purpose of this was to see if the injector was the cause of the noise. In which case, letting it settle in or perhaps just a bad rebuild could have been a factor. The injector was not the issue - switching injectors had no effect. The issue stayed with the cylinder in question. That was the point of the post.

In short, I could respond by saying read my post before you say something, but honestly I don't feel that way. I'm happy for any help that anyone provides because it all is good information and useful in evaluating what might be going on.

Thanks for your help on this, but the attitude I don't need. I have no hard feelings and as I said am thankful for the help. I know I check my ego at the door as I know I don't know the answer and am looking for help from others more knowledgable than me. Hopefully not everyone takes it personally when anyone might try to take input and evaluate it and move forward.

If I am off-base on why it isn't an injector and that it can still be an injector after moving the injector, please tell me why. As I say, I am doing the best I can with my own knowledge and that of others like yourself that are trying to help me learn. My doing continued testing shouldn't be taken as a statement that I didn't think your advice was good or even that I was ignoring it. I can be monitoring the noise as I continue to put mileage on it while continuing to narrow things down. In fact, I think that this testing eliminates the injectors, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't understand why this bothers you.

I'm not sure if I helped the situation or drove a wedge even further, but I wanted to clear the air here.
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  #52  
Old 03-18-2012, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitop View Post
If I am off-base on why it isn't an injector and that it can still be an injector after moving the injector, please tell me why. As I say, I am doing the best I can with my own knowledge and that of others like yourself that are trying to help me learn. My doing continued testing shouldn't be taken as a statement that I didn't think your advice was good or even that I was ignoring it. I can be monitoring the noise as I continue to put mileage on it while continuing to narrow things down. In fact, I think that this testing eliminates the injectors, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't understand why this bothers you.

I'm not sure if I helped the situation or drove a wedge even further, but I wanted to clear the air here.
You might have an issue with one or two injectors. However, in dealing with this engine for the past five years, I can assure you that every time that the secondary fuel system was worked for any reason, the result is injector knock. Three fuel lines.............always get injector knock after the repair. Delivery valve seals currently............a horrible case of injector knock.

For reasons unknown, the engine must get a couple of hundred miles to sort out the issue. Each time it has abated significantly.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if you want to pursue all kinds of approaches to your issue. However, if engine miles are the only thing that will eventually cure it, you've wasted all that time.

It's your engine............do what you wish.

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