Hi Everyone,
My question: What legal recourse do I have to challenge my dealer on a transmission problem. I brought them a car I drove from Miami, FL to Charlottesville, VA. The dealer did some work to have it pass VA inspection. Now the car is at the dealer and it won't go into drive, S, or L. Only reverse.

Background: Well, I purchased an 1985 300CD in pretty good condition from a dealer in Florida. I live in Virginia.

I drove the car home from Florida (near Miami) to Virginia (about 900 miles). Had a couple of problems in that the turn signals didn't work and one of the headlights didn't work. Found out that the headlight was a melted fuse block (mentioned in another of my posts), and the turn signals were fixed by my local dealer (near Charlottesville, VA).

Living in Virginia, I needed the car to pass VA inspection. Took it to the local MB dealer; paid a lot of money ($2K) to get stuff fixed for it to pass inspection. I went to pick up the car and one of the headlights still didn't work (after they'd already put the inspection sticker on the window). Told the dealer and they kept the car another day to fix it.

Went to pick up the car last night and the car wouldn't go into drive, S, or L. I left the car at the dealer and told them this morning about the problem. They diagnosed the problem as they also can't get the car into drive, S, or L. They are going to change the transmission fluid.

I'm concerned that I brought them a car that drove, and now it doesn't. Something happened to the car while it was at the dealer and I don't feel I'm responsible for any repairs. What do you think? Do I have any legal standing?

Thanks,
Kurt

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1967 Dodge Coronet R/T (SOLD)
2001 Volvo S80 (Accident; bought by Insurance)
1996 Volvo 850 Wagon (SOLD)
1982 Mercedes Benz 240D (Accident; bought by Insurance)
1988 Mercedes Benz 300CE (Deer Strike; bought by insurance)
2002 Volvo XC70
1985 300 CD

from a legal standpiont I can not really answer. However I would have to say that because of the car being new to you it therefore has an unknown history. That pinning it on the dealer here(in Virginia) may be a bit of a stretch. I am also not to sure that haveing the dealer work on an older car is a good idea unless they are real familier with it. Perhaps better to take it to a specailist in older Mercedes.

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1977 240D turbo

I had just driven the car about 900 miles over two days with no problems. Additionally, I drove the car to the dealer for them to work on it (with no transmission problems).

Wouldn't you think that matters?

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Kurt

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1967 Dodge Coronet R/T (SOLD)
2001 Volvo S80 (Accident; bought by Insurance)
1996 Volvo 850 Wagon (SOLD)
1982 Mercedes Benz 240D (Accident; bought by Insurance)
1988 Mercedes Benz 300CE (Deer Strike; bought by insurance)
2002 Volvo XC70
1985 300 CD

id never take such an old car to a dealer, but it could be that they were monumentally unlucky to have the transmission fail right there. If I were you, id get that car out of there before they run up 3 grand in diagnositics that you could learn from searching on the internet yourself, and find a local indy that knows these cars. Have it towed there.

Could it be a B2 piston failure? these are pretty common, and not terrible to fix.

I was driving with someone when this happened, there was absolutely no warning. Pulled up to a traffic light, stopped, and the car never moved forward under its own power again, was like a light switch. Would go in reverse though.
There are lots of threads on this subject, do a search. Couple where people fixed this fairly painlessly.

Maybe the combination of you having just driven it, and whatever them driving around testing it, and maybe it just crapped out, at which point you can't really say they are at fault UNLESS you had them do transmission service in that 2k bill.

Either way, it would be a tough argument on such an old car. Whos to say something just didn't fail because of age? Tell us what they initially did in that large bill

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In it's most elemental form, the original poster expects a repair garage to fully warrant the entire car. The OP is expecing this even for systems / repairs they did not make, all on a 27 year old car that they didn't sell.

In the automotive world in general, there are cars that can shear splines off the drive shell, this is the result of long term wear. The trans will work fine until it doesn't.

Or a governor gear will wear out and not shift out of first.

Or a window can shatter / crack on it's own.

Or a fuel pump can fail without warning, battery go bad.

Everything has to fail at some point. If you took your car to a tire store and the trans failed, would you blame them for the failure?

It's too bad that we've come to the point where the first time there's a problem we want to get the attorneys involved.

I learned a long time ago that when we try to play the attorney game, the only ones that win are the attorneys. It's their game... it's rigged... they make all the rules... and who runs the courts? More attorneys. And who makes the laws... you guessed it, more attorneys.

I think there are better ways to handle the presenting problem.

Just my $ 0.02

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Current Stable

• 380SL (diesel)
• Corvette C5
• Manx
• Baja Bug
• F350 Powerstroke
• Auburn Boattail Speedster replica

I don't think the dealer is probably at fault for this, but I think we may be jumping to conclusions here about the OP and taking a negative view of his side of this problem.

Remember, the OP has already spent several thousand dollars with these people to have a car that doesn't move, and has a current inspection sticker, that he immediately prior drove 900 miles there to have a light fixed. Id be pissed too, but its probably not their fault.

Dealers as a whole are notorious scam artists with poor service on older cars, with few exceptions, so in most situations I would completely be on the side of the OP as the person who has been wronged, but if they didn't do any transmission service, its probably just an unfortunate coincidence. Trans failures could be sudden and permanent, with no warning.

The real problem here is that its still there. There is a possibility that it might be something simple, but I doubt it. You need to check the linkage, vaccum lines, ect. The dealer will be charging you through the nose to do basic inspections, and chances are they know less about these cars than the average owner, so you are paying them to learn.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Where is the negative view? Someone just pointed out that it is unfair our society is geared to hire a lawyer at the first sign of trouble.


I may be a little slow on the read here, but no I dont remember several thousand dollars.


Agree. so lets put together a list of possible issues and how to test. The piston failure is classic. I have read about that one. Sounds like the ticket here.



Have you worked for a car dealer? Lets take a step back. How many people have a grievance with a bank? Think they are scam artists too? What they have in common is that they are large businesses that have HUGE expenses and need to charge ahead to stay afloat. This often means we get steam rolled in the process. I am not saying its right, its just that each employee in the chain is not payed to make sure you are absolutely cared for. The techs are typically not equipped to deal with a car that has vacuum switches? What? They plug in a computer that tells them what to do and they dont get paid more than the fastest dude in the country to do it.


Totally agree.


Put the brakes on this steam train and find a local indie that is well versed in the W123. Do some diag yourself if you are confident to do so.

Can you share with us how it cost 2K to fix a head light and a t-sig? Really?

For 2K I'd drive to Charlottesville, fix it for you, fill the tank and treat you to dinner.

Valuable lesson, take your old car to the old car pros. Rarely are these guys at your local dealer. Often they were trained there.

Best of luck.

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83 300TD (need rear wiper assembly dead or alive)
84 300SD Daily driver
85 300TD almost 400k miles and driven daily.
98 E300D *sold
86 300SDL *sold and made flawless 10 hour journey to new home.

He said two grand somewhere, but im interested too in what was done, all the OP has said is they repaired some lighting and some "other stuff". That sounds like about 1700 bucks too much

I worked for a dealer right out of tech school for a short while. Guys who are right out of tech school work for dealers = inexperienced. The minute you gain experience, you start working on diagnostics vs part swapping, so are actually paid less in flat rate to put your greater experience and skill to use. Example- to put such and such on the car- 10 hours flat rate. To figure out what the heck was wrong in the first place- flat diagnostic fee, maybe 1-hour flat rate, if that.
maybe it took you way longer to do the diagnostics, but the fee is flat rate, so you lost money. Meanwhile the guy next to you putting such and such on the car fast since he's done it a dozen times, and doing two 10 hour jobs in 8 hours, 20 hours flat rate pay for one day of work.

The concept of flat rate is not good for getting the car repaired properly, and most dealers pay flat rate, so reward speed over quality. The faster you do it, the more money you make, not the better you do it.

Not a lot of guys that I graduated with stayed at dealers for long, (maybe thats changed in the years since I got out of tech school), but you simply don't make that much money, and have to deal with endless corporate BS

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Never leave any vehicle with any mechanic unless you have an agreement on what is to be done at what price.

That said, he drove in without transmission problems. It is unlikely that the tranny just quit. I would have them fix what I paid for then load the car on a trailer and leave. $2k is too much for some minor fixes.

Of course, I'm cheap & like to know my costs are at a minimum and that the job is done right if I paid for it.

A friend of mine took his 240D in because it wouldn't shut off. The shop replaced the vacuum pump and wants ~$700. The car still doesn't turn off with the key. I suspect a bad brake booster because brakes don't feel right but put a vacuum gauge on the lines.

Bottom line, get your car & don't leave an open check book ever again.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Even if they broke it you are kind of up a creek without a paddle. If a person insists on taking a car to garages. Unless there is a real reason established to trust them . Always make a note of your odometer reading. Plus understand things are not under your control while they have your car.

In general the guys that worked on these models at mercedes dealerships have largely retired by now. The vast majority of mercedes dealers really know how to charge at the very high end for work as well.

Since the car was left there. I was also wondering if it was not locked up and perhaps someone forced the shift lever if the car sat outside overnight.

If so it may be just something like a bent or broken external part. There is also an outside possibility whatever is wrong was done on purpose to make money from you. They would have to be pretty crooked but that kind of senario is not totally unknown either.

You cannot accuse them of anything without some form of proof. This could have been circumstantial as well.

What one of the other Posters said is true. They only warrant the work that they did or damage to the body or interior that happened while the car was in their car.

Where I worked when an expensive Care came in we took pictures of the outside and interior so the Customer could not clam we messed it up.

I actually stopped working on my own Mothers Car because if I worked on something in the rear of the Car I got blamed for something that went wrong on the front of the Car.

My Mothers perception was the same as the OPs. There was nothing wrong in the front of the Car till I worked on the Rear of the Car.

Every month on this forum something suddenly happens to someones old Car. We do not like it but our Old Cars are on barrowed time.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Did they do a transmission filter and ATF service?
Maybe a flush on a machine?
Either way it is common on an old vehicle with no trans service for quite awhile, get one and some speck of dirt gets lodged some where in a spool valve and now there is an issue.

Some indie shops won't do a service in this scenario but a shop that just wants $ will do it.

You will need a diagnosis first and probably find out its nothing they did wrong.
Go to a transmission shop that is familiar with MB's, not a franchise shop.

By law, most if not all states, whenever a dealer or indie replaces a part, they have to show you the part(s) replaced. Even if it is a part with a core charge. That is your right. It is up to the customer to ask for the parts. That is why it is always best to tell them you want the parts so do not throw them away. Don't tell them until they tell you what is wrong and what they plan on doing to fix it. Keeps them honest. Even if they didn't replace parts, ask them to show you what they did. Most of the time, the tech will explain it, if not, ask to speak to him/her. I doubt fmorke will have any recourse with the shop. He didn't go in for a trans repair. This is probably coincidence. I had a fuel pump fail. I had driven to pick up a few things, shut the car. Done in 5 minutes, went to start it, wouldn't. Fuel pump died instantly. It is entirely possible his trans died a similar fate my fuel pump did. It is up to him to make sure the shop is capable of doing the repair. Ask many questions. Just don't call, drop it off and walk away. Then expect your car to be fixed. Ask about experience. You wouldn't hire a plumber to remodel your kitchen would you. Yeah, he knows a little but do you think he is trained in hanging cabinets, doing electrical. Just because there is a sign that says "we fix car" doesn't me they can. Ask, ask, ask questions.

This is a really unfortunate situation. Pretty close to everyone's worst-case fears when buying any car.

However, the key info is as far as I can tell missing: did any of the work done by the dealer involve the transmission? We are told it was a $2k bill but no details provided.

Without a clear answer on that, this discussion is largely meaningless.

Also the OP isn't completely clear. He says the car won't go into forward gears. I assume this means it DOES go into reverse? If not, if it has lost all movement forward and reverse, then this begs a question whether any work had been done on the transmission just prior to the sale.

I understand many people have had negative dealer experiences. As have I.

However, IF the dealer didn't work on the transmission, then this is simply really, really bad luck.

I understand both sides. I have a friend who runs an honest shop. He has had these sorts of experiences, not a lot, but at least once a year for the decade that I have known him. Not all are this severe. Someone brings a car in for a brake job. After he does the brakes, on the checkover test drive, the rear muffler falls off or the rad pops or the water pump goes. The next step isn't always pretty.

The aspect of how far the car was driven just prior to the mishap is a red herring. How many miles the vehicle covered the year, week or day before has no bearing on a component failure.

You need to find a reliable and reputable indy shop right away. Very few dealers are interested in, or truly qualified for working on an '85.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22