Help me learn please.
 

Hey guys, I joined here because I'm looking to learn more about the OM617, and diesels in general honestly! I know the basics..but I still have questions..Like what are glow plugs? What do they do? Why do you need to wait for them to be "ready" before running the motor...whats the glowplug afterburner? Stuff like that lol..I understand the basics, Ip instead of fuel pumps, add fuel to cool EGT's and make more power..basically it seems fuel is king for making power in the diesel world, without it, you just have alot of heat lol.

Honestly, I was recently looking at spending a bit over 3000USD to build my jeep 4.0 in my 1987 jeep cherokee. It wasn't a storker build, more of a performance/economy oriented build! Then I remembered seeing a thread of a guy swapping in a 3.0L merc diesel on a jeep forum and remember hearing 25mpg, performance on par to the jeep 4.0 and so now here I am...ready to learn:D I've gained sooo much interest in this swap, thats it become a priority to learn as much as possible about it (om617) and diesels in general and put my build on hold until I decide whether this is a better option for me!
I've read almost all the swap threads, but I'm here to learn about diesels and particularly the OM617! How does it work, whats the do's and don'ts. I don't want to read more about swaps until I know the basics of what I'm working with!

I'm seeing output numbers around 116hp/180ftlbs which seems pretty good, less than my 4.0 (180/220ftlbs) but not bad! I know you can pull some more from these things fairly easy..and I guess my goal will be to get similar output like my 4.0..around 220-240ftlbs but get them as soon in the rpms as possible! Main concern would be to get the power lower in the rpms, sooner spool, broad torque curve! I have a camping/expo rig, so stumping pulling off idle torque isn't needed, but a broad torque band & still a nice top end for highway is always nice!
So far I've got a ax15, 3.55's and 30x9.5's & a 3" lift, with quiet a bit of weight added..around 3700lbs or so..probably closer to 4000lbs fully loaded for trips!
So teach me guys, I'm still searching and reading myself but give me the basics first, then I'll get into the rest!

The glow plugs help start the motor when it is cold. They glow white hot, you have to wait until the timer light goes out, then when you fire the engine the injectors spray against the glow plug to help get the diesel started.

the 617 can be modified by allowing more fuel and providing more boost, but beyond getting relatively small increments it is expensive to get a lot more power.

You may find the 617 under rated a bit by mb and the jeep might be over rated a bit so the actual difference might be minor.

I believe there are adaptors available for the engine to tranny swap.

Use the search function here and there is a power tuning section as well.

Good luck!

You would be far better with a 606 or a 603 than a 617. I have a diesel XJ, they were never sold on your side of the pond. I like it. Its ideal for off road.

I have no idea which side of which pond the OP is on, but diesel XJ's (Jeep Cherokees) were most definitely sold in the US.

For about four years in the 80's, and only with automagic transmissions.

These engines are completely mechanical, no chips.

As mentioned, you must add more air and more fuel in the proper proportions, otherwise you just get a bunch of smoke and poor mileage.

The 617 is rarely modified successfully without many, many dollars thrown at it.

Welcome to the forum.

These guys do a lot of performance mods to these engines.
There is one thread where Rudolfdiesel added a serpintine belt to his. but is is super modded.

STD

Here is one where "Dealwithit" installed a om617 in a Mazda PU.
He starts out with a om617 then about pg 3 finds a good om617.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/243868-83-240d-engine-swap-into-mazda-b2200.html

Charlie

Thank you everyone for the responses, makes me feel very welcomed.
I'm in lovely california:rolleyes: I've seen 1 or 2 diesel Mj's. 2.1L renualt's. And 1 very ugly purple 2.5L cherokee, guy had a spare drivetrain for it as well. Couldn't get it running I guess.
I'm not looking for axle breaking, neck snapping power lol. And its seems the simple mods to the 617 will be more than suffice for me! Again I'm looking at this swap because I was going to rebuilt my 4.0 to be more efficient. I was going for a old 232 crank, 3.50" storke vs 3.414" of the 4.0..It would put the pistons .005 above the deck, thus a .038 quench vs the stock .0785 or whatever. Someone around 9.2:1 which is about max for 87oct fuel..Home ported head & a Rv style cam because mines a 87 I had a single pattern which sucked for low end...basically $2000-$3000 to gain some power where I wanted & make the motor more efficient all around and gain mileage. Thus the reason for joining here, a diesel swap seems to do exactly what I want and I'm sure the power is more than enough and they last almost twice as long as my 4.0 can! Plus the cool factory and of course bio fuels are an option..its just all pros for me!

From everything I've read, its obvious theres no cams, or headers that'll gain this & that ect, like on our jeeps. I'm not new to motors, just new to diesels! I was very curious about maybe regrinding the cams to try and shift the power band a little lowwer? But haven't seen much talk, so I'll probably leave that idea alone, unless theres info on it?

I'm thinking more along the lines of possibly cleaning up the head slightly? Casting flaws and sharp ridges, and putting a mirror shine on the exhaust side which would all be beneficial! Wouldn't take much time at all, and keep would exhaust velocity higher, thus a sooner spooling time, although it may not be much of a difference, every little bit helps lol. I enjoy porting heads honestly lol, been a hobby for a while.
Other than that, crank the IP up a little and somewhere around 10-12psi of boost. Don't want to push to far, maybe a different turbo to suit my powerband needs! I've seen people upgrade there stock turbos to a 60trim wheel and such! I'll also be running a A/A intercooler as well, 100% garunteed lol. Hot california summers, easily 100-120* in summer times where I'm at. I won't be trying to make the most power, just a little more..and keep it reliable. 500k+ is very very attractive!
And just maitenance from there out, probably ceramic coat the exhuast manifold as well. Now I've seen it a few times, but people getting a different intake manifold as well..not sure why?

How much is it to rebuilt a 617 head? Parts wise not machine work? I figure if I do a compression test & leak down test and it comes back with positive results, then I could rebuild & clean it up and be good for another 500K:eek:

Also the 617 vs 606 vs 603 thing..I want a turbo diesel for sure! And from my understand the 617 is the cheapest andvery plentiful.
I'll be searching for my own answers as well, but sometimes its just better to ask. I'll look at cost, and the differences of the 3 motors!

Also are these 617's like our jeep 4.0's? Are there better years for the motor/turbo, maybe stronger cams in later years? Idc about the trans as I'll be using my ax15. I know 94-95 was our best years performance and emmision wise but I personally prefer the 87-90 for ease of everything lol.
I don't want to deal with tones of wiring, or needing computers to control a bunch of stuff, just something simple!
hopefully you guys are still with me after that long post! :o

Being in California, wont you face some substantial problems with a non-stock engine when it comes to emissions testing?

I'm sure that it won't be legal in California! I went through hell smogging my jeep, and it passed with litterally no emmisons after tons of maitenance & replacing/fixing parts, everything reading like .01-.05 with a max limit of like 13.00 lol.
I know its frowned upon but I may pay my "fee" every year, or possibly register it out of state. From my understanding the law is you can swap a motor, but it must be the same manufacturer and must be same year or newer!
As is my 87 cherokee, I can swap in a 96 motor but to make it 100% legal, I'd need to get all the emission stuff and hook it all up correctly then get it Cali Bar legal. I swapped a few honda motors back in the day lol..

Idk if theres a law about swapping in a diesel though? Either way I'm not really concerned about the actual pollution because the diesel should burn cleaner than my old 4.0 anyway.

The 617 has cast iron block and heads, valves need routine adjusting. The last year was 1985, the first non SLS head engine was 1982. Any of those years will be fine.

The 60x has an aluminum head and hydraulic valves.

Porting and polishing will help, as will cleaning and maybe polishing the intake manifold as the egr system introduces soot into the engine, be sure to bypass that in what ever engine you decide on.

The money is in the labor, if you can find parts for the head, all you would really need are new seals and springs and a head gasket. try the buy parts button at the top of the page.

The only electrical items are starter related, on a 617 anyway. A diesel engine runs by the heat from combustion to ignite the air/fuel mixture. The glow plugs heat the pre-chamber to facilitate starting a cold engine. The only way to shut off a diesel is to starve it of fuel or air.

I'd stay away from cam grinding, but that's me.

Awsome, I know when I looked at the 4bt swap, people were saying all you need is like 5 wires and thats it...makes for 1 clean engine bay which is also very very nice!

Are you saying to get a 82-85 or any 617 in general?
It has to be a 617 as its the only one that'll fit without much work. I'm still looking for any info on cams or regrinding the cams but to be 100% honest..99% chance I wouldn't even touch it lol..cause thats another can of worms and added cost! I think the 5speed, 3.55's and 30x9.5's would give me a decent cruise rpm and such, and get me to the power sooner.
everything I've read the om617 revs to 5200? And spool starts around 1800rpm, power comes on strong around 2800rpm.
My jeep currently revs to 5200rpm as well, so it'll be nice to hook up the rpm gauge and it look normal lol.

I'm curious if I could get the spool times down to around 1200rpm, and maybe get the power on stronger by like 2200-2400rpm which is what I'm cruising at now. I cruise around 2250.
Proting iron heads sucks, but its where I learned and its easier honestly! Aluminum head fall fast, material is gone before you know it..I loved doing iron heads because you can really get into them and not have to worry so much!

LOL

guess I said something wrong?

Found out the info on the intakes that I see everyone talking about... I'll ink it here for future reference!

OM617 Turbo intake


It also seems that the stock Ip is good for about 140-150hp & around 200ftlbs..its pretty maxed out from the factory. So a A/A intercooler and meth would do it good, and give me some room if needed for more power.

Welcome
 

Here is a link that will help you.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/146034-fast-navigation-do-yourself-links.html


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