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  #1  
Old 03-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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Aluminum Flywheel

Would a lightweight flywheel cause vibration issues? I have to make up a custom flywheel for my conversion anyway, while I am at it an aluminum flywheel was suggested. My only concern is the possibility of vibration-I've heard that a 616 flywheel on a 617 will cause vibration issues....

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  #2  
Old 03-14-2012, 03:02 PM
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A lighter flywheel contradicts the whole idea of finding a heavier (300D vs 240D) flywheel for a manual conversion.

From what I understand, a heavier flywheel makes for smoother shifting because the engine doesn't drop to idle as quickly. Vibration would have more to do with balancing the flywheel to the engine.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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Well there is vibration and there is vibration.

In general it is my observation that whenever there are vibration issues more mass to absorb the energy helps. The ideal weight for a flywheel on a 617 seems to be what the factory supplied, a 38# flywheel. In my 300d with that flywheel the motor idles very very smoothly and it shifts nicely. I think you will be happiest if you get as close to that as possible.
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:15 PM
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I wouldn't use aluminum. The whole point of a flywheel is to have rotational energy stored up to carry the drive through until the next piston fires, and the more mass (weight) the more energy is stored. Other people have tried to use 616 flywheels in 617 applications, and I believe the consensus is that the 616 flywheel is insufficient; I would guess that an aluminum flywheel will weigh a lot less than even the 616, and thus be even further away from suitable.
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2012, 03:27 PM
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So aim for 38lbs? I can do that, or more

Now OT, would an aluminum flywheel help a severely underpowered 2.5L gasser?
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:36 PM
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Light flywheels are excellent where fast acceleratin and decelleration is desired and extra vibration is not an issue....like race cars and motorcycles.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastropodus View Post
I wouldn't use aluminum. The whole point of a flywheel is to have rotational energy stored up to carry the drive through until the next piston fires, and the more mass (weight) the more energy is stored. Other people have tried to use 616 flywheels in 617 applications, and I believe the consensus is that the 616 flywheel is insufficient; I would guess that an aluminum flywheel will weigh a lot less than even the 616, and thus be even further away from suitable.
Well the 616 flywheel is not insufficient. My 617 runs, drives and shifts very good. I love the acceleration from the lighter flywheel, though I think what Tom W says about the heavier flywheel is very much correct. I don't think I would ever go with a home cast aluminum flywheel. I think that would be asking for problems.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:48 PM
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I just finished a fly wheel for an Electric car project.
Attached Thumbnails
Aluminum Flywheel-fiat-fly-wheel-003-small-.jpg   Aluminum Flywheel-fiat-fly-wheel-004-small-.jpg   Aluminum Flywheel-fiat-fly-wheel-005-small-.jpg   Aluminum Flywheel-fiat-fly-wheel-006-small-.jpg   Aluminum Flywheel-fiat-fly-wheel-007-small-.jpg  

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  #9  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
I just finished a fly wheel for an Electric car project.
Looks nice. I like it. But you are not running a clutch on it or will a starter claw away on it. How much does it weigh?
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Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
Looks nice. I like it. But you are not running a clutch on it or will a starter claw away on it. How much does it weigh?
It has a clutch. The stock disk and pressure plate are used. You only need to use the clutch when you shift, and it is not "ridden" or slipped during take off like with an engine. You just step on the gas and away you go.

Not sure on the weight.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
Well the 616 flywheel is not insufficient. My 617 runs, drives and shifts very good. I love the acceleration from the lighter flywheel, though I think what Tom W says about the heavier flywheel is very much correct. I don't think I would ever go with a home cast aluminum flywheel. I think that would be asking for problems.
x2.

A lot of people have encountered vibration issues, but IMO, thats because they didn't take the step of match balancing or even neutral balancing the flywheel and automatic driven plate before completing the swap.

Some of the 617s have balanced auto flywheels to the crank, some don't. Additionally, some 616 sourced manual flywheels are often out of balance if they were sitting in a yard for years, or just from use, or age, whatever. I think its a worthwhile step to take, but a lot of times, its skipped in the swap process.

Even on 4cyl engines, I almost always at least neutral balance the flywheel before installation.

Like Jim, I had excellent service from the 616 manual adapted to a 617 using the 4cyl flywheel. The one thing I thought was hugely different was compensating for stock turbo spooling with the throttle, not vibration. You get used to that in about 5 minutes, but its different than driving the stock 240s.

Just like a 240 for a few seconds of acceleration, then that turbo spools, and the car takes off.

Between that characteristic, and the automatic acceleration characteristic, I thought the fun factor of my old diesel had just jumped 1000%
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
It has a clutch. The stock disk and pressure plate are used. You only need to use the clutch when you shift, and it is not "ridden" or slipped during take off like with an engine. You just step on the gas and away you go.

Not sure on the weight.
So what car and engine will this be used on?
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Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2012, 03:34 PM
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Wear charactaristic of a clutch facing on aluminium would have to considered as well. To the best of my knowledge no manufacturer has used flywheels with an aluminium facing for the clutch. Although not knowing everything I could be wrong.

I also wonder how the aluminium might react to the heating that a clutch can deliver. Stability from warping that is.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2012, 04:11 PM
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The aluminum would simply be the base. I would be using a steel ring gear, and a composite or steel friction surface riveted to the aluminum:

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  #15  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
So what car and engine will this be used on?
2012 Fiat 500

Any engine driven fly wheel will need a steel friction surface insert as is pictured above for durability and consistent engagement characteristics.

They also have a shrink fit ring gear for the starter.

Adding a weight to the end of the trans helps with the 617a / MB manual buzz at cretin speeds.

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