Any one go electric for fuel pump? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

AdamArc · #1 03-16-2012, 02:46 AM

Got some issues with my MB and I was wondering if any one has eliminated the manual pump and gone with an electric lift pump on the 606 motor? I am tired of chasing fuel gremlins and then running the battery down. I looked into a new pump or a rebuild kit but $150 for a Ford Super Duty pump, some hose clamps and a lot less time it seems I can avoid a few headaches.

cewyattjr · #2 03-16-2012, 06:58 AM

I'm curious to hear more Adam. Mine is a '99 E300, also with a WVO kit. It's plumbed with two GC valves. I find that it wants to lose prime now and then when I'm back on diesel. I've wondered if an additional fuel pump would help. I've also had conversation with some that said it needed to be plumbed differently with 3 rather than 2 valves.

Anyway, I'm just totally guessing, but wondering if your situation is similar?

-Chuck

Phillytwotank · #3 03-16-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cewyattjr

I'm curious to hear more Adam. Mine is a '99 E300, also with a WVO kit. It's plumbed with two GC valves. I find that it wants to lose prime now and then when I'm back on diesel. I've wondered if an additional fuel pump would help. I've also had conversation with some that said it needed to be plumbed differently with 3 rather than 2 valves.

Anyway, I'm just totally guessing, but wondering if your situation is similar?

-Chuck

An additional electric fuel pump would be great for your WVO setup. just to help move the thick stuff a little easier on the stock pump.

Phillytwotank · #4 03-16-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamArc

Got some issues with my MB and I was wondering if any one has eliminated the manual pump and gone with an electric lift pump on the 606 motor? I am tired of chasing fuel gremlins and then running the battery down. I looked into a new pump or a rebuild kit but $150 for a Ford Super Duty pump, some hose clamps and a lot less time it seems I can avoid a few headaches.

definitely rebuild the original or get a new original

KarTek · #5 03-16-2012, 09:01 AM

I bought a Ford pump for testing and it was $84. In prototyping, it works well, even pushes right through the existing lift pump.

I would eventually mount it at the fuel outlet, under the left rear seat pan. Wiring is a challenge. Have to find a wire that's hot only while th engine is running or rig an oil pressure switch and a priming switch under the hood for filter changes.

Lots of interesting options but it has to be safe and shut off if the engine isn't running.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FUEL-PUMP-2000-FORD-F-350-SUPER-DUTY-DIESEL-E2236-/260654581378?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2000|Make%3AFord|Model%3AF-350+Super+Duty&hash=item3cb0394682&vxp=mtr

AdamArc · #6 03-16-2012, 10:39 AM

The problem I have is that the car will idle rough when hot in P or N and do some funny stuff when decelerating I am looking at the lift pump as the culprit right now. I was told WVO may have deteriorated the innards or WVO may have messed up the injector nozzles. Since WVO runs through the lift pump I figured why not go electric (WVO resistant, self priming) to make things easier. And no more cranking the beejeeus out the motor.

cewyattjr · #7 03-16-2012, 11:21 AM

Adam, do you have a sense of how hot your oil is getting before getting into the pump/injectors?

My symptom is that on diesel if the car has been idling for some time, I seem to get some air infiltration. I don't see fuel leaking and haven't smelled it, but I have seen the bubbles. Also on deceleration on diesel, I'll feel it stumble.

AdamArc · #8 03-16-2012, 11:29 AM

WVO temp is 80* to 100* going into the motor.
When at operating temp the stumble happens on diesel and goes away immediately with WVO and comes back on diesel. Theory is the WVO is thicker and has worn out parts so going to a thinner fuel causes the stumble.

I am still wondering why it happens only when the motor is hot. I know there is some sort of fuel temp sensor but can't find any info on it.

I had bubbles from the lift pump to the SO valve. I figured it came up stream so bought a $14 Napa fuel filter- clear glass, 5/16" in/out, cleanable- and plumbed it into the rubber hose from the firewall to the grease system bypassing the fuel heater and stock prefilter. I am about fed up with the whole stet up and would replace stock fuel filter/lift pump set up with my own if I knew the flow rates of the stock set up.

oldsinner111 · #9 03-16-2012, 11:33 AM

I ran a electric pump to push both fuels,loved it,made mountain climbing fast.I always ran 50%wvo and diesel and push fuel thru it filters where then it was heated to 180 dgrees.

AdamArc · #10 03-16-2012, 11:41 AM

Nice thing about Greasecar is it has a separate filter for the WVO. No cross over.

cewyattjr · #11 03-16-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamArc

When at operating temp the stumble happens on diesel and goes away immediately with WVO and comes back on diesel. Theory is the WVO is thicker and has worn out parts so going to a thinner fuel causes the stumble.

This sounds very, very familiar. When my car is colder (on diesel) it is much quieter, but much clackier once warm. I had a guess that it might relate to bubbles in the fuel. Sluggish stumble happens to me more when warm, I'm pretty sure of that.

If you can stand still fussing with it, I will be very curious to hear the results if you decide to add this pump!

Diesel911 · #12 03-16-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamArc

The problem I have is that the car will idle rough when hot in P or N and do some funny stuff when decelerating I am looking at the lift pump as the culprit right now. I was told WVO may have deteriorated the innards or WVO may have messed up the injector nozzles. Since WVO runs through the lift pump I figured why not go electric (WVO resistant, self priming) to make things easier. And no more cranking the beejeeus out the motor.

I do not entirely see the Logic, no matter what you use as a Fuel Supply Pump the WVO may continue to cause damage to the Fuel Injection Pump, Injectors and cause sticky Piston Rings. And, there is no apparent worry about that; yet the Fuel Supply Pump is blamed?

Your non-hand primer type Fuel Supply Pump has Disc Valves similar to the ones in the Vacuum Pump and on the old timey Fuel Pumps in Gasoline Cars.
So you may be right the tiny Spring on the Disc Valves could get gummed up and the same with the seating areas of the Valves.
From what I have read an issue not related to alnternte Fuels is it seems that the Disc Valve in this type of Fuel Supply Pump simply do not last as long as the Hard Plastic Valves inside of the 617 Type Fuel Supply Pumps.

You Fuel Pressure Relief/Overflow Valve is supposed to have a small hole in it to allow for the bleeding off of Air. It is easy to imagine that thicker Fuel would render the hole useless and maybe even mess with the other functions of the Fuel Pressure Relief Valve.

But, if you want an Electric Pump go-for-it; if it works it is one more bit of knowlege to add in my Notes.

Phillytwotank · #13 03-16-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamArc

WVO temp is 80* to 100* going into the motor.

80-100*F is prolly too low.. wanna be up around 150-175*F by the time it gets to the lift pump inlet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamArc

I am about fed up with the whole stet up and would replace stock fuel filter/lift pump set up with my own if I knew the flow rates of the stock set up.

The flow rate of the stock pump is going to be variable depending on engine RPMs. there are various threads in archive that can give you an idea of exacly the flow rate and pressure of the stock pump. Point is, You probably dont want to be just blasting a Static high fuel pressure into the IP at all range of engine RPMs.

Adding a "high" pressure (as high as the stock pump would put out fresh new and maybe just a bit higher) boost to the fuel presssure for heavy loads, hills, acceleration with an electric pump is a good idea. IMO

AdamArc · #14 03-16-2012, 04:06 PM

UPDATE: Ran the car around to get up to temp. I can see fluctuation of fuel in the clear Napa filter. When I pinch off the return line at the firewall the fluctuation stops. The engine still runs rough.
I ordered a new banjo bolt/check valve today. I still have not replaced the plastic return line that corresponds with it. That is for an all day project.

Philly: I have to check and see where the GC controller is set for switching over.
Still have to think how a to work in a electric pump. maybe with a regulated return?
Like what is done for 7.3 motors to eliminate mechanical pumps.

cewyattjr · #15 03-16-2012, 04:12 PM

That banjo bolt is the piece that's difficult to access, but right under the manifold, I think? You may want to order new o-rings and such, but maybe you've already done that. Viton is supposed to be ideal, but I find them literally hard to work with.

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