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#1
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617 engine swap possible?
I've now learned I have a bad rear main seal on my 79 300td (confirmed)..the rest of the wagon is only a bit rusty, nothing major and jack points and other crucial areas underside are good.
I've found a 85 617 300td in better condition, lower miles but is a turbo and is close to home. Would I have to swap the tranny too? I'm hoping not since I just put in a nice one on my 79 that works perfectly. If it is possible -- what should I expect for a price for someone to pull the old one and do the swap? anyone know of some good indys in southern Minnesota? I've heard about a good shop in Owatonnna...and Hubers in Minneapolis...anybody else? thanks!
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1979 300TD - 700k+ (looking for a fold down 3rd seat) 2000 VW Eurovan MV - 140k |
#2
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I think you are going to like the swap.
It is recommended that you get the entire donor vehicle so that odds and ends of parts are readily available. I do believe that the trans will bolt to the donor motor. But the donor trans is a different kind of trans and you may want to consider using it. Price? I will throw out there $1800 to $2200 labor for a Remove and Replace. The same fee if they had to replace with a rebuilt engine. But if you are lucky you will find someone who has skill with diesel benzes that will charge the 24 hours differently, like a better hour rate. I did a swap and spent one day removing both engines. One day prepping the car for receiving the donor motor. One day putting it in and getting it running. And I was working slow and had never done it. Good Luck.
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80 300D 340K Owned 30 yrs 83 300SD 440K Owned 9 yrs - Daily Driver 150mi/day 02 Z71 Suburban 117,000 15 Toyota Prius 2600 miles 00 Harley Sportster 24k 09 Yamaha R6 03 Ninja 250 |
#3
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1. I 'd double check the rear main seal. It is almost unheard of to lose a rear main on these motors. There are a couple other sources of possilbe leaks back around that area that are much easier to fix.
2. if doing the turbo swap you need to swap the radiator, engine, tranny, driveshaft, rear end, and speedometer. May as well do the oil cooler too.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#4
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Just to throw another price in there. I had my 190E's engine+transmission removed, the engine was replaced with a different one and the trans sent out to be resealed. Shop charged me ~$800 to remove and install the motor/trans combo.
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out. Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability! (4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!) 82 300SD 145k 89 420SEL 210k 89 560SEL 118k 90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010 90 560SEL 154k 91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k 93 190E 3.0 235k 93 300E 195k |
#5
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Well TW might be 100% correct, but off hand I kind of doubt it. You are staying with the W123 type, and I think the transmission could be used. Maybe the controls might be different, some use the Bowdin cable, some don't. Drive line will be OK if the transmission is OK, but probably the differential gearing is off by a trifle. If the rear end is changed the speedometer should be changed also. If you are planning on keeping the car in Minnesota, I don't see anything wrong with using the current non turbo oil cooler and radiator, though if you have them both it is as easy to install the one as it is the other. Where Tom W is really correct is to make sure that the leak you think is from the rear crankcase seal is really correct. I thought mine was leaking, but it wasn't, it was all leaking from the oil filter mount. Compared to r&r of the engines, pulling that oilfilter assembly and replacing the gasket under it would be a walk in the park. Could even be a badly installed valve cover gasket. Replace those gaskets before you switch engines. If you do switch, I think the turbo exhaust is different and larger.
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Junqueyardjim Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis 1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA 2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage, Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it! |
#6
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Jim's right about the exhaust. it's different.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#7
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Thanks for all the feedback -- I've had it looked at by two mechanics and they've both agreed it was the rear main seal -- sure wish they were wrong...
So now I'm using 20w50 to keep the leak slower --- I'll keep you all posted on what I end up doing -- I'd love to pull the engine myself..but would definitely need another hand to watch over me.. thanks again
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1979 300TD - 700k+ (looking for a fold down 3rd seat) 2000 VW Eurovan MV - 140k |
#8
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My brother and I did almost the same swap. His car:1981 300D, the donor engine from a 1980 300SD (turbo). The existing trans will bolt up just fine, but will need to use the control rod and all the trans related parts from the N/A engine. My brothers car was an '81 with vacuum only, so no control rod or cable. You will find that you need to use one of the engine support brackets from the turbo engine (not sure which side), and the other from the N/A. There is also no engine damper shock mount on the crossmember on one side (or maybe it does not line up with the mount, I can't remember). You also need the exhaust system from the turbo car as well. If your '85 has CA emissions (trap-ox), you might want to source a set of manifolds from a 49 state car, or better yet, a set from a '78 or '79 SD (no EGR). You will definitely need the radiator and oil cooler from the donor car, as well as the expansion tank (N/A engine does not have one). Most everything else is self explanatory. It is also nice to have the entire donor car on hand (as others have said) just in case you need a part. Also, I suggest finding a friend that can help and do the job yourself. It is not that hard, and you would save a lot of money. You can take your time and clean things up during the process (power wash the engine bay etc), which is something some shops will not do.
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All Diesel Fleet 1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL 2005 E320 CDI (daily) LOTS of parts for sale! EGR block kit http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html 1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This! Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst. Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11): http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html |
#9
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Quote:
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Junqueyardjim Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis 1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA 2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage, Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it! |
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