I may be taking the diesel plunge (or maybe not)

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I'm considering acquiring my first diesel. There's this '82 240D in my area for $250. It's got about 140,000 miles. The engine starts and runs OK from cold, according to a friend who went to look at it when the seller was home. Also my friend said the power widows and other accessories still seemed to be working (except for of course, the AC - no suprise)

I stopped by to see it a few days later, but the owner wasn't there, so I couldn't hear it start or see how the oil pressure was after warmup, but I had a pretty good look at the body and floors. Beige exterior, tan interior. Most paint still shiny. Body looks pretty straight, except front passenger door, which has ding and the side molding is missing.

Now for some bad news - it's not driveable due to the left rear suspension arm having rusted partly in half, so the left rear wheel now sits twisted at a most peculiar angle. Other rust includes part of the drivers side floor alongside the inner sill and similar, but smaller, rusting on the passenger side floor, though the rockers still seem largely intact. Also there's a big rust blister on the left rear fender behind the wheel, plus the right front fender has been bondoed & repainted but it's now blistering through the bondo. A few years ago, I repaired much worse floor rust in someone else's 300D so I'm not scared off because of the floors in this one. Anyway, if I decide to take the diesel plunge, I'd be fixing this up as a driver, not a showcar. Interior looks decent except for a big hole in the driver's seat (I'm thinking sheepskins here!)

I am concerned because this is an automatic.
I know these are slow anyway, but I'm more concerned about durability. Are the automatics a weak link on these cars?

Has anyone ever seen one of these W123 rear suspension arms rust out? I have a '72 W114 250 parts car. Will a rear suspension arm from the W114 fit a W123?

I know many say there's no more expensive Mercedes than a cheap Mercedes, but I suppose (worse case) I could always part this one out.

On that note, There's this 300D with a decent body, sitting in a neighbor's driveway down the other end of my street. It might be availible cheap because the automatic died a few years ago.
Final question - will a 240D automatic work in a 300D?

Happy Motoring, Mark

It's hard to say without seeing it, but this sounds like it's more of a parts car than a driver. You may be better off finding another one with a bad engine and transplanting the engine (if you are confident of the mileage and condition). It will probably cost more than you think to fix this one if the rust is as bad as it sounds. Either that or look around for a good $2000 driver that doesn't need much work.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Well, this cheap 240D could become the parts donor for that neigborhood 300D with the bad transmission. If a 240D auto won't work with the 300D engine, I suppose dropping in the whole 240D engine & tranny might be feasible, but then I'd be stuck with the infamous 300D ACC.

Meanwhile, except for the left rear suspension arm, the rust on this 240D isn't nearly as bad as the '80 300D that I patched up for someone else a few years ago. That car had totally rusted open the rear wheel arches, the firewall had perforated where the battery had eaten the metal away, the drivers floor was so bad the seat had partly fallen through, and the rust had eaten so far up the inner sill that the lower driver's seatbelt anchor was hanging by a shred! I had to fabricate two long heavy guage steel plates to repair the seat and sill area.

As for a 'good $2000 driver', thats what some in the DC area are asking for a driveable 240D in similar condition as this one, but without a rusted out rear suspension arm. Last week there was an '81 240D advertised in the Washington Post, with 80,000 miles, for $6500. Presumbably at that price, the car would be in perfect, or near perfect, condition, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.

The seat mountings in this $250 240D appear to still be OK and I'm hoping the rust hasn't terminally eaten up into the sill, lower pillar and seatbelt areas yet. I'll call the owner tommorrow, so I can get a more thorough second look, and hear it run myself before I make a decision.

[rs899]

Mark-

My 82 240D was originally a Northern Virginia car and has similar issues. Of course, the trailing arm and front fenders can be replaced, eliminating those problems and the floor can be easliy patched. The transmission will not work well with a TURBO 300D. If the car is otherwise mechanically sound, I would go for it and look for manual transmission parts to swap in.

We would enjoy having you here on the diesel forum.

Rick

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Of course I would prefer a stick-shift in this car. The fact that it's automatic probably weighs more against the car for me than the rust, as I can't properly test-drive this car, other than perhaps to see if it will move forward and back a few feet.
If the auto-tranny is still sound, I hope to be able to use the car as-is while I put her into shape and decide whether to keep or sell or consider a WVO conversion.

Over the years, I have occasionally driven an automatic 240D that didn't feel totally gutless. Specifically, one fellow's '74 model many years ago that actually felt quite zippy around town. Unfortunately, his engine seized several months later. Don't know if that was related to whatever 'high-performance' tuning his car may have had.
On the other hand, I remember test-driving another '70s automatic 240D back then that was PAINFULLY slow. That one made the '72 gas 220 I owned at the time, seem a hotrod by comparison!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Well, I did it! Tonight there was a full moon, I turned 50, and for my birthday, I acquired my first diesel! The seller's wife was not happy that I haggled the price down to $225!

There's a bit more rust under the drivers seat than I hoped, but the seat mountings seem OK for now. The rear wheel arches, which can be so difficult to properly repair, are rust-free. Except for some trunk-lid scratches, the 8 year old repaint still looks good.
Engine starts up instantly from cold (at least with today's 70 degrees - we'll see how she does two months from now when it's freezing!) Guage reads max oil pressure, even idling in gear after warm-up. I couldn't actually drive her more than a few feet back and forth, due to the aforementioned cracked rear wishbone

She's a 'full-dress' 240D, with power locks, power windows (all working!) manual sunroof, automatic tranny (claimed rebuilt 3 years ago) cruise control (condition unknown) and four new Mchelin X tires!
AC is dead (no suprise) but heater heats and blower works fine (but of course the W123 must have one of the easiest to change Mercedes heater blowers) Thankfully NO ACC!
Will post more after daylight allows further examination.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[stcbenz83]

CONGRADULATIONS!!!

you will find so much help from this forum its unbelieveable

also check out dieselgiant.com lots of good info


]welcome to the club!!

[bgkast]

Congrats. Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. Good luck!

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Well, I spent most of this morning in DMV Hell, getting my driver's license renewed and my new 240D title. I bought the car from this couple and car was titled in both their names. The husband's signature was an illegible bunch of 'chicken scratches' that extended way down into the buyer's signature line, so I expected a big hassle. But I didn't mention it and the girl accepted it - no problem. So I guess the answer is - Don't ask, don't tell!
(Hopefully, I won't get a letter saying the DMV supevisor has auditted the paperwork and they're revoking my new title!)

Then on to my local MB parts supplier in Vienna VA, for a used left rear control arm, hub & bearing, so I'm now ready to start getting this baby up on all fours. But first, I think I'll start reading the 240D owner's manual to help me get used to the peculiarities of diesel ownership.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[rs899]

Welcome aboard!

Maybe we can fully convert you and get you to sell all those vergassers you have been hoarding. What do you have now?

You will be happy to know that you have the "high output" version of the 240D with about 4 or 5 more horses than the early ones. You might think about changing the manifolds to early style and eliminate the EGR. But pay attention to vacuum connections on the valve cover as they may affect the auto transmission shifting.

Rick

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by rs899

Welcome aboard!

Maybe we can fully convert you and get you to sell all those vergassers you have been hoarding. What do you have now?

You will be happy to know that you have the "high output" version of the 240D with about 4 or 5 more horses than the early ones. You might think about changing the manifolds to early style and eliminate the EGR. But pay attention to vacuum connections on the valve cover as they may affect the auto transmission shifting.

Rick

Ohh .... 4 or 5 extra horsepower! Maybe I can dream about taking on some of those ricer kids in their hopped-up Hondas.

I think I will figure out how to bypass the EGR if that becomes an issue. Fortunately, no diesel emissions testing is required in Virginia yet. (The DMV girl DID tell me I was going to need an emissions test until I reminded her that this was a diesel!)
As for the vacuum issue, the PO already wrestled with that, repaired some vacuum line, replaced the vacuum pump and all vacuum accesories appear to be working OK for now, including the power door locks!

My MB parts guy told me used 240D values have been greatly boosted by recent fossil-fuel prices and the interest in alternative fuels, but I bought this car for the learning experience, because I've never owned a diesel and it was only $225! I felt, at this price, it was a cheap enough gamble on a car that, except for mostly the driver's floor and a rear control arm, was in considerably better shape than many other W123s of this vintage. I may also explore the WVO issue. If I can ultimately make some money on this car, that would be just be a bonus.

As for my vintage 'Vergassers' (which I'm not getting rid of!)
They include 'Miss Daisy', my rusty '60 Fintail and a very nice '72 250C coupe, safe in Mom's garage until I get it registered with some antique plates. While somewhat thirsty, those old straight-sixes are still a smooth pleasure to drive!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Yesterday, I explored 'Mercedes Caverns', specifically the inner-fender rust holes behind the right headlight.
(Curiously, the left side is still rust-free) Pulled out all the loose rust and rotten, peeling undercoat.
The tiny grounding bolt for the headlight fell off with the rust. so I transferred the wires to one of the nearby EGR solenoid mounting screws.

Then on to make the hood open easier and figure out why the aux fan is falling off. 8 years ago, one of the couples teenage sons had a fender-bender and the hood was replaced and the radiatior support 'repaired'. I spent a couple hours finishing the 'repair' by replacing & tightening the various loose and missing screws and bolts for the aux fan, AC condenser, and braces for the radiator support. This has certainly eliminated all sorts of squeaks and rattles. Also found out why the AC doesn't work - a condenser tube was snapped off!
Then an adjustment to the right hood hinge and the gaps look much better now, plus the hood closes smoothly and the latch doesn't jam anymore.

Today, I'll pull the rust and loose undercoat from under the driver's seat and around the jack-ports. It looks like the metal hasn't eaten through the jack-ports yet so maybe, if I'm feeling lucky, I'll test the jack!

Sunday I'm starting the 'Big Job' - replacement of the broken left rear wishbone. Wish me luck!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[rs899]

Good luck-

Doesn't sound so bad- yet. Do you have a decent spring compressor for the rear? If you are not familiar with W123s, I know there have been some posts on here on how to do this either with or without removing the whole rear subframe.

Rick

[Mark DiSilvestro]

It looks like the outer wishbone bushing bolt is up inside a cavity behind the rocker panel so I'll have to at least unbolt one end of the rear crossmember to extract the outer wishbone bushing bolt.
I do have a home-made spring compressor that I've used on strut suspensions, The rear compensating spring on a W108 swing-axle, and recently, to remove the front control arms on a W124 300E, but I don't know if it will work on my 240D rear spring.

Or I could try what I did with my '61 Ponton many years ago, when I replaced the front subframe and had to transfer the springs and control arms to the new one. I might be able to insert a heavy all-thread rod through the shock absorber hole to restrain the spring until I'm ready to release it after the wishbone has been unbolted.

Or I'll just have to buy or borrow a suitable tool.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Well, I spent this afternoon digging around the floors, stripping loose rust, and undercoat.
I found a 3 foot long gap between the floor and sill under the driver's seat and a 1 foot long gap under the passenger seat. Good news is I also found $2.92 in change and a Sony portable CD player under the floor mats. I tried some batteries and it works too!
The rear passenger floor mat is now hanging over the fence, draining water from it's foam pad!
Some other good news - all the jack-ports still support the weight of the car. I even 'double-tested' the front ones by climbing on each corner of the front bumper, while the car was jacked up on that side.

Happy Motoring, Mark