87 300d no start
 

I have an 87 300D that wont start.

See the following for a history.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/315931-87-300d-no-start.html
I am starting a new thread because, on the last thread, people seemed to zoom in on the mechanic's lack of knowledge.
I am starting a new thread, hoping that someone can overlook the issues of the shop and the mechanic, and assist me in getting my car back on the road.

1. Does anyone know if the Mass Air sensor will suddenly and unexpectantly cause the car to die going down the road, and then not start?
2. The mass air isnt getting the 3-7V that is should. Does anyone know what supplies the voltage to the Air Mass sensor?

I plan on putting 5v to the mass air sensor tomorrow, to see if it I can get it started. If it starts, I need to find out the source of the problem.
Thank you very much for your assistance. I am quite frustrated with this problem, and would like to keep my car from going to the junk yard. If I sound harsh, please forgive me.

I am getting voltage to the fuel rack on the IP, I have elimated the fuel filters, mechanical fuel pump, egr valve, EDS, ALDA.
I dont have any pressure coming out of the IP, (even after replacing it). I suspect that something is keeping the IP from passing fuel through it, I just dont know what.

Once again, thank you very much for your assistance.

... air.

the IP is 99.9% mechanical. if it's not passing fuel, it's not getting fuel, or air is in the lines that needs to be purged.

is this a 124 or a 126?

Are we sure we are speaking about an OM603 in an '87?

There is no voltage at the fuel rack on this IP. It's a mechanically driven rack..........driven by your right foot. Nothing else.

How long did you crank the engine (measured in total number of seconds) after the IP was replaced?

Are you positive that the camshaft is turning and all the valves are opening and closing? Has anybody pulled the valve cover and confirmed this?

Could you please post a picture of the engine in your car. What your mechanic told you isn't correct if you have an '87 300D with an OM603. The 2 replies you received are from VERY knowledgeable members. Please help them help you. You also received excellent advice in the previous thread.

As was previous stated your car will run fine without the EDS functioning. It's only job is to keep the idle at a constant speed. You IP is completely mechanical. The only electricity needed is to start your car. Once it is running no electricity is needed.

My long shot guess is your vacuum pump failed and took out the engine. It should have been louder than some pinging though. Or someone dropped an OM606 into your car before you bought it.

As to your question in the other thread, did my mechanic miss anything. Yes he missed the oil running out of your exhaust. Have you checked the oil level?

These two points are critical.

The "ping" from a gas car is a mechanical noise...........meaning something mechanical has failed. A diesel does not ping.

Oil in the exhaust means that something mechanical has failed. There is no conduit for oil to get into the exhaust unless it manages to get into the cylinder and NOT burn.


Therefore, the only previous question that is applicable is whether anybody has checked the camshaft and the valves for proper operation. You can can forget about my other previous questions. Your problem is more serious than you believe.

You must do a compression test on all six before we go any further.

I only ask this given the track record of the shop provided in your first post, but are you sure the puddle of oil under the exhaust they described is actually a puddle of oil and not soot/condensation?
Personally I would, as others have suggested, take it to another shop and start over, and follow the advice already given here.
I'd also make sure the battery and glow plugs were functioning fully, even though that seems really obvious and would not explain the highway failure you had. If replacing the IP and ALDA helped anything, it still might not start if you had coincidental GP failures or a half-dead battery. Just a thought.

It is a 124 and it is definitely a 603 engine. The puddle of oil could very well be soot/condensation.
It has been cranked several times. I was at the shop cranking it myself for roughly 5 minutes in 30 second increments while the mechanic was under the hood. He was loosening the fuel lines, and said that fuel was getting to each injector, but not enough pressure.
I will have to get a picture tomorrow.

Let's get realistic.

A puddle of oil has absolutely no similarity to some soot/condensation on the driveway.

Get your facts together and be accurate if you expect a proper solution.

Either the tailpipe is spewing oil...........or it's not.

Which is it?

Just to clarify, the only reason I suggested it was that I thought it could be a potential poor description from the shop, not because I thought a soot stain looks like a puddle of oil. Sorry to confuse the matter further.

Everything you needed to know to get you started diagnosing a no-start on the vehicle you describe was given in the last thread. Yet, you still come back to electrical questions that will get you no closer to being back on the road. You can remove the "mass air sensor" entirely...wires and all, and this model 300D will still start and run. As a matter of fact, you can remove the intake completely, crossover tube and all and the car will still run. I have done it.

If it seems as though there was a lot of criticism of the shop/mechanic, it is because you are describing work done or in progress that is irrelevant to the correction of this situation. You can either take the advice of the people here who have tried to help (who actually own this model and/or have years of experience with them), or continue to chase circuits that will not aid in the resolution.

I'm sorry if this seems curt, but you have asked advice, but seem to want to "do your own thing" rather than follow it. This wastes time...both yours and those responding.

Actually, your query put the OP on the spot for providing accurate information.

It's a waste of time and bandwidth trying to diagnose a vehicle where the OP doesn't have all the required data.

Whether that stain is oil or soot is absolutely critical to the recommendation on how to proceed. If it's oil, he can just forget about trying to start it. If it's soot, the potential for a fuel issue still exists.

... fuel to each injector, but not enough pressure?
 

UM, SO THE GUY HAS A 20BAR POP TESTER ON THE Ip????

have any compression readings been taken on the motor?

All,
Thanks for answering my question about the air mass sensor.
Please remember that the car is at a shop about 30 miles from my house, and it is hard for me to get to the shop before they close, so the only thing I can do is take the advise given here and relay it to them. Likewise, when I relay information to you, I can only relay what I have been told. If the mechanic disagrees with my(and your) recommendations, I cant force him to do anything until I get the car in my posession. (that is coming soon).
Right now, I dont have the liberty to walk out the back door and try everything that is suggested. Please try to keep that in mind when you make suggestion and condescending remarks to yourself. I have seen some comments that I dont appreciate, but I intend to ignore them.
The pressure coming out of the IP is about 4lbs. I, and a friend of mine(who and is a level 1 master mechanic for BMW and has 30 experience rebuilding engines) had the valve cover off, and actually saw watched each cylinder, and the valves. We determined that the problem is not internal to the engine. The mechanic, and several other people dont believe that the problem is internal to the engine. I also have several years of experience working on cars and was ASE certified in engine repair about 30 years ago. I stopped by the shop this afternoon after they were closed, and rubbed my finger in the exhaust pipe. There was a lot of dry soot, so I am guessing that the mechanic sees dry black soot, and not oil coming out the exhaust. I havent requested them to do a compression test because the engine is being starved of fuel.
That is the problem. My intent on opening this post is to see if I can get some assistance finding out why no fuel is coming out of the IP. Even after the IP was changed.
There is a connector on the top of the IP that has 3 wires going it. The car is definitely an 87 300D with a 603 engine. I have been told that it is the original engine, and has not been replaced. It is also a 124 body.
The problem is that fuel is not getting through the IP. That is why it died going down the road, and that is why it is not starting.
One person (outside this forum that the Crank Sensor may be the issue. He told me the specifics, but I dont remember everything he said, and for fear of putting inaccurate information, I dont think I will elaborate.)
Can someone please tell me if the crank sensor could prevent the engine from getting fuel, and dying on the road, and not starting?

there is no crank sensor...

what is the fuel pressure entering the IP?

if you had a new IP installed, and it STILL has no fuel... perhaps the fuel is plugged somewhere... the fuel thermostat, the secondary filter, the primary filter, the tank screen... even the tank vent could cause issues...

are you ase certified working on diesels? mechanical diesels? the wire going to the IP is a simple idle control circuit, nothing to do with fuel flow. 4psi at what volume? MAX 4psi on a dead headed injector line? where'd you get the IP?