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  #1  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:46 AM
BenzTurbo's Avatar
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Unhappy I have really screwed up this time...

Well long story short i moved my delivery valves randomly. I think they are called delivery valves. My engine now idles high (up to 1000rpm) What should i do? I cant put them back where they were. It does not run rough so maybe it is ok? What should i do? I do not have the money now to have someone calibrate it on a test bench. I was told that moving them would give me a little more fuel? Argh, can i just turn my idle screw down to compensate for my dumb- @$$ ness?
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:47 AM
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original post: Messed with injector lines- high idle now...
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  #3  
Old 05-23-2012, 06:42 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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why cant you move them back?

They raise the output device and change your timing minutely. I don't know if that gives more fuel or not but I doubt it will damage anything. It might give more power and or might change fuel consumption for better or worse though.
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  #4  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:22 AM
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You have nothing to lose by trying to return them to the former position. Your only other choice is to bring the IP to a Bosch shop.
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  #5  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:53 AM
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You have a third choice. It may be the best option to try at the moment. Really read and get to understand the milli volt method. Put the first element back to some approximation of where it was. Judicious use of matching the voltage on the remainder of the elements might get you at least far closer than where you are now.

If by some chance your proven voltages where all about the same now you might get by by cranking the idle down. You still would want to read the voltages to make sure that you do not have a cylinder running too much hotter than the others. This would mean verifying your glow plugs all have a simular voltage output n ow as they are used though. Fourth option might be a cheap used puimp out of a pick and pull. The issue is you do not want to run an engine out of serious loading balance.

One first thing might be to take a magnifying glass and try to see if there is any physical evidence of exactly where they were before. It is possible I think to get all the elements close to a good comprimise position with the milli volt method used properly though. No substitute for a bench clalibration but better than nothing.
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  #6  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
You have a third choice. It may be the best option to try at the moment. Really read and get to understand the milli volt method. Put the first element back to some approximation of where it was. Judicious use of matching the voltage on the remainder of the elements might get you at least far closer than where you are now.

If by some chance your proven voltages where all about the same now you might get by by cranking the idle down. You still would want to read the voltages to make sure that you do not have a cylinder running too much hotter than the others. This would mean verifying your glow plugs all have a simular voltage output n ow as they are used though. Fourth option might be a cheap used puimp out of a pick and pull. The issue is you do not want to run an engine out of serious loading balance.

One first thing might be to take a magnifying glass and try to see if there is any physical evidence of exactly where they were before. It is possible I think to get all the elements close to a good comprimise position with the milli volt method used properly though. No substitute for a bench clalibration but better than nothing.
I noticed in the picture that the two right side delivery valves have an outline of the washer as it must have been in the original setup. I would suggest setting those two valves back to their approximate position, and then use the above instructions to calibrate the other two. Good luck
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
why cant you move them back?

They raise the output device and change your timing minutely. I don't know if that gives more fuel or not but I doubt it will damage anything. It might give more power and or might change fuel consumption for better or worse though.
Wow that makes me feel WAY better! It breaks the tires loose 1st to 2nd gear at WOT now Thank you for your post
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
You have a third choice. It may be the best option to try at the moment. Really read and get to understand the milli volt method. Put the first element back to some approximation of where it was. Judicious use of matching the voltage on the remainder of the elements might get you at least far closer than where you are now.

If by some chance your proven voltages where all about the same now you might get by by cranking the idle down. You still would want to read the voltages to make sure that you do not have a cylinder running too much hotter than the others. This would mean verifying your glow plugs all have a simular voltage output n ow as they are used though. Fourth option might be a cheap used puimp out of a pick and pull. The issue is you do not want to run an engine out of serious loading balance.

One first thing might be to take a magnifying glass and try to see if there is any physical evidence of exactly where they were before. It is possible I think to get all the elements close to a good comprimise position with the milli volt method used properly though. No substitute for a bench clalibration but better than nothing.
Ok the pick n pull has a 50% off sale starting on friday! But first im going to try the millivolt method and trying to get them back to the original position. They do "pop" much louder now. I can hear them when the windows are down.
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  #9  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:50 PM
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Sorry, can somebody link to the millivolt method and how it's administered. I've just put a row of fresh Bosch GP's in so if there's ever a time to check for consistency across cylinders by sampling GP output, now is it.

thx!
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzTurbo View Post
Ok the pick n pull has a 50% off sale starting on friday! But first im going to try the millivolt method and trying to get them back to the original position. They do "pop" much louder now. I can hear them when the windows are down.
hmm --ill be there.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BenzTurbo View Post
Not sure what you are speaking of. The Delivery Valves are under the Delivery Valve Holder and the Deliver Valve Holder is what you screw the Fuel Injection Hard Lines onto.

The Arrow pointing in the Pic is pointing to the Elemen/Plunger&Barrel (or the Nut).

Rotating the Element is how they adjust the Fuel amount for each individual Element.

They run it on the Test Stand and Measure the Flow (in the old days they measured the Volume per 1000 strokes).

There is really no replacement for the Test Stand and you need the Specs also.

If you wandted to increase of Fuel people often remove the ALDA and the Rack Limiter.

Before folks start moving things they need to mark were they were before they were moved. That way there is a good chance to get them back to where you started from.

Rignt now you cheapest way out is to go get another Fuel Injection Pump from the Junk Yard and hope no one else did what you did to it.

The milivolt method would be more accurate if you used the same Glow Plug on all of the Cylinders.
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  #12  
Old 05-24-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzTurbo View Post
Ok the pick n pull has a 50% off sale starting on friday! But first im going to try the millivolt method and trying to get them back to the original position. They do "pop" much louder now. I can hear them when the windows are down.
In effect you have also in effect advanced the timing I suspect. The injectors would pop off earlier I believe with your adjustments. The newer noise might be a reflection of this. Of course I am not positive. .

It was mentioned by a poster to use the same glow plug for the test. You have to in one way or another use some form of a known glow plugs for the millivolt test.

The issue is milli volt testing will only work well if good consideration is given to many factors. The tendency for many is to take short cuts unfortunatly.

It technically is labour intensive. Well at least more so than many have practiced. .By the same token it can work fairly well if applied properly.

As mentioned the old position is clear on at least one element. Setting that element back to its previous position provideds the refference for all the others. When you are finished if done properly your injection pump will be calibrated to your individual engine. If more than one previouis position is obvious. Set one back then voltagewise watch what occurs when you move another back to its previous position. The two voltages should become very simular. That is your proof if you are doing everything right.

Remember older glow plugs may or may not have simular output voltages for the same thermal temperature in the cylinder. That is your fly in the ointment that must be dealt with. Other than that it should be almost a piece of cake. You never do this on an injection pump without establishing that there might be some other factor or factors causing a difference like a marginal injector first. Your case is completely different. I actually have been waiting for someone to do what you have done...Someone had to be first. I my mind it is really no big deal to restore everything back to some sembalance of what was if you pay attention to details.

Last edited by barry123400; 05-24-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
In effect you have also in effect advanced the timing I suspect. The injectors would pop off earlier I believe with your adjustments. The newer noise might be a reflection of this. Of course I am not positive. .

It was mentioned by a poster to use the same glow plug for the test. You have to in one way or another use some form of a known glow plugs for the millivolt test.

The issue is milli volt testing will only work well if good consideration is given to many factors. The tendency for many is to take short cuts unfortunatly.

It technically is labour intensive. Well at least more so than many have practiced. .By the same token it can work fairly well if applied properly.

As mentioned the old position is clear on at least one element. Setting that element back to its previous position provideds the refference for all the others. When you are finished if done properly your injection pump will be calibrated to your individual engine. If more than one previouis position is obvious. Set one back then voltagewise watch what occurs when you move another back to its previous position. The two voltages should become very simular. That is your proof if you are doing everything right.

Remember older glow plugs may or may not have simular output voltages for the same thermal temperature in the cylinder. That is your fly in the ointment that must be dealt with. Other than that it should be almost a piece of cake. You never do this on an injection pump without establishing that there might be some other factor or factors causing a difference like a marginal injector first. Your case is completely different. I actually have been waiting for someone to do what you have done...Someone had to be first. I my mind it is really no big deal to restore everything back to some sembalance of what was if you pay attention to details.
The Shims that go between the Elements and the Fuel Injection Pump Housing were used the set the Timing (the begin injection for each Element).
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  #14  
Old 05-24-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The Shims that go between the Elements and the Fuel Injection Pump Housing were used the set the Timing (the begin injection for each Element).
So the lateral adjustments are for fuel volume only with no interaction on timing? Only increasing fuel amount or volume after the pop off pressure? That is when he tweaked them in the direction he did? I did not realise there was no interaction at all or at least a little.

It is quite possible from what you say though. Especially since you worked on these injection pumps. It was observed quite some time ago that the voltage or temperature could be lowered or increased by using this adjustment.

What I assumed and assumptions are always dangerous. Was that some engines exhibiting a kind of pronounced knock on one cylinder. Simular in description to what one would expect with an advanced element.

Seemed to consistantly lose the symtom once the voltage on that cylinder was brought into line voltagewise. Reflecting then that it was running at the same temperature as the others. Most of the participants back then had rebuilt their injectors and many other things before arriving at the end of their rope. It never failed to amaze me that in the highest percentage of the cases it eliminated the obvious proble.

I still preffer personally that nobody go here usually unless all other possibilities have been eliminated. This current case is an exceptional one in my opinion. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain. It never failed to amaze me that in the vast majority of cases the members where sucessful at eliminating their complaint.

Last edited by barry123400; 05-24-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzTurbo View Post
Ok the pick n pull has a 50% off sale starting on friday
~$45 for an IP at pick n pull, but it'll be half off this weekend. I'd pull the pump this weekend even if I was going to try and get mine working.
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