Questions on a '97 E300 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

VW1300 · #1 06-01-2012, 04:23 PM

Two questions about a '97 I drove recently:

1. Used car dealer says alternator is shot. Car had to be jump started. Once started, idled fine - no smoke, no strange noises - IP message "check electrical system" or something like that but otherwise no idiot lights on. OK I thought - make sure he fixes the alternator - but then no cold A/C, ugh. Dealer guesses that since the electrical system isn't putting out full voltage perhaps A/C won't come on properly. Does this makes sense? Whatever the cause, I 'm not buying a car in the summer with no A/C. That's a deal breaker.

2. Took car for a test drive. Trans shifted smoothly etc. I wouldn't call this car peppy, but seems to get up out of its own way just fine. Satisfied with the performance. Question - last year I drove a '96. I know the engine is the same but the '97 has the newer 5-speed auto. This '97 seems livelier than that '96, which was a dog. Do all '97s accelerate better than '96s, or perhaps was there something really wrong with the '96? That '96 passed a PPI with flying colors, but I'm just wondering.

Dealer is getting back to me with a quote to fix alternator and a/c. If we move forward, I will get a pre purchase inspection. We'll see what happens.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your comments.

sixto · #2 06-01-2012, 05:03 PM

The '97 might be geared for better 1st gear performance since it has the longer legs of 5th for mpg.

These cars are always iffy to jump start. Read the manual to see if MB recommends jump starting or warns to avoid it completely.

Why do you need a quote to fix the alternator (my guess is it sat a while and needs a new battery) and AC? It shouldn't matter to you what it costs him to get the car ready to sell. You'd better be getting it for $2000 if getting it up to selling condition is your responsibility. Who knows what else is wrong with it.

Sixto
87 300D^2

VW1300 · #3 06-01-2012, 07:19 PM

Well the quote is for the dealer, not me. I think he really does want to know what he's looking at - selling a car with a bad alternator in TX in the summer and without A/C will be difficult for him.

Bad alternator was diagnosed by local M-B dealer earlier this month. It showed up on the Carfax.

Local mechanic and prepurchase inspection will tell me what else if anything is wrong with it. We'll take it from there. The car drove well and from the looks of things underhood, was maintained well for at least part of its life. Hoses are still rubbery for the most part and not petrified - fuel lines on the other hand are pretty hard but I couldn't see any bubbles or smell any leaks when the car had been running for a while so I think I'm OK there.

I've looked at and rejected enough cars over the years, I only buy if I think it's fair value on a car that's in generally good shape. Who knows, maybe a new alternator and a R134 charge is all that's needed? Again, back to the PPI which hopefully will be revealing. Thanks for your input though.

BTW, it occurred to me that perhaps that '96 wasn't kicking down to 1st when accelerating from a stop.

TMAllison · #4 06-01-2012, 08:32 PM

You can pull up the AC acutal values data, and error codes, from the CCU; in addition to voltage output. Voltage ought to be +13-13.5 while running.

For actual values press and hold REST for 5 secs and the use the AUTO buttons to toggle throught the screes. 1-7 are AC, 24 is voltage.

You'll have to look up the error code procedure using advanced search. They all start with EB####. Search STEVEBFL and CONTINENTAL IMPORTS.

nelbur · #5 06-01-2012, 09:12 PM

This car and similar age w210s have too frequent problems with leaking A/C evaporators. Mine is having it's evaporator replaced now. The price for labor and Mercedes parts is around 3 grand, so be sure they don't just fill it with refrigerant without finding the source of the leak.

KarTek · #6 06-01-2012, 09:23 PM

I agree with the evaporator being the source of the leak. Giant PITA to replace...

VW1300 · #7 06-01-2012, 09:40 PM

Is a leaky evaporator detectable by a competent mechanic familiar with MBs? I can tell mechanic to look for that in particular.

My '85 had a terrible leak but it turned out to be a hose, but I remain cautious.

thanks,

KarTek · #8 06-01-2012, 10:27 PM

You can inject dye but the problem is that it will show up inside the AC enclosure. The only way I know of is to take everything apart.

I will say that if I charge mine up so it's putting out nice cold air, then I leave it over night, it has a funky, oily smell in the interior the next morning.

nelbur · #9 06-02-2012, 09:07 PM

I believe the best way to determine if the evaporator is leaking is to add a dye and look for it under the car with a UV light. The dye will be visible in the end of the drain tube.

sixto · #10 06-02-2012, 10:05 PM

Our Suburban was at the shop for AC work last month. They added a type of chemical telltale that's detected by a wand they can stick into the dash vents.

Sixto
87 300D^2

VW1300 · #11 06-02-2012, 11:53 PM

Well I drove another '97 today. A little nicer general condition but more $. Cold air, but "service electrical system" warning message when the car started (cranked quickly and started without issue). Hmmm. Radio displayed "code". Used car dealer says the battery had died, and they replaced it. Says he'll get the code to get the radio going. I told him to call me when it was all squared away. We'll see.

Maybe it's my age (I'm going on 42) but the roughness of my '85 in Houston traffic is starting to get to me. The charm of the W210 smoothness really appeals to me. It seems like a lot of the ones that pop up are auction cars that never have service info beyond a Carfax though.

sixto · #12 06-03-2012, 12:45 AM

Consider that the same money that buys you a so-so '96 or '97 can buy you a very well maintained '95. If the basis of comparison is your '85, a good '95 will feel a couple of generations fresher.

Sixto
87 300D

Jeremy5848 · #13 06-03-2012, 02:26 AM

Sixto makes an interesting point. The W210 chassis is a lot more electronic / less friendly / less serviceable. The 1995 E300D as the last year of the W124 chassis pretty much had all of the problems endemic to any design worked out. 1995-96 have the same engine and transmission; 1997 has the first year of the 5-speed. I have heard that the first year of the 5-speed was problematic but that has probably been fixed by now on any car from that era. It's possible that the 5-speed does a better job matching the OM606NA engine to the road; it needs to rev before it makes any power but scoots along quite nicely if you wind it up. Rev limit is 5400 RPM, pretty high for a diesel.

The W210 is in many ways more sophisticated and (I think) has a tighter suspension but I personally prefer the older, less complicated model with the softer suspension. That is a more personal thing, you'll have to decide which kind you want. A 1995 E300D will be perhaps half the price of a 1996-97 in the same condition, I suspect. Either one is far more modern than your '85 (I had an '85 for several years and have a '95 and a '96 now).

Jeremy

VW1300 · #14 06-03-2012, 08:30 AM

Thanks to all for the input. A coworker drives a '95 E300D and it is a great car - I've driven it. Sixto is right, it is much less expensive/complicated than a 210. Problem is, I don't like the way the W124 sits really low to the ground. In Houston, a lot of people drive big pickups and SUVs, not to mention tractor trailers. I like to be up off the ground a little bit more - the W210 feels noticeably "raised up" compared to the W124. Second point - I like the side airbags feature. Again, it has to do with the idiot Houston drivers.

I've read a lot of previous posts etc., and am taking the advice to find the nicest W210 I can. If things don't work out on these two I'm looking at now, I'll sit and wait for other ones to come along. I rejected about 6 W123s before I bought mine, and with each one I learned a little bit more on what separates the good ones from the bad. I can do the same here - I've driven about 5 W210s over the last 2 years now.

Jeremy5848 · #15 06-03-2012, 12:17 PM

Getting t-boned by a jacked-up pickup or SUV is one of my favorite horrors. I don't believe the ride in a 210 is any higher than in a 124 (and I have one of each, side by side in the garage) but the side airbags are indeed nice to have. The 210 also gives you back the glove box stolen for the 124 passenger airbag. Maybe your friend's car has been lowered or has bad shocks/springs?

In terms of finding a nice '96-97 E300D, look for a good set of service records (as always). There should be records showing that the climate control blower and controller have been replaced. That is a common early failure item and IIRC controller failure requires replacement of the blower too (or is it the other way 'round?). The first owner of my '96 got to do that and it was an expensive ($1000+) job. There are threads on this forum about substituting a 140 controller as a less expensive alternative but in any case that failure should already have happened after 15+ years.

The '96 E300D has the same 4-speed mechanical/vacuum transmission (722.4) as earlier cars; the '97 has the then-new electronic 5-speed. Read up on that one and make sure any problems have been addressed by the PO.

Repair of a 210 can be different from a 124. For example, console switches in the 124 can be replaced one at a time (or at worst "by pairs") whereas the 210 has modular sets of switches that must be replaced as a group for much more money -- the four window switches and the outside mirror switch are a group, for example.

The 210 has plastic headlamp covers that yellow with age. You can use that as a bargaining chip to lower the purchase price. Replacement requires a complete new assembly ($$$ -- lens not separably replaceable) but you can buy a $15 kit and polish the lenses (the yellow is only the first few surface molecules). I did my '96 and was quite pleased with the results. OTOH, the 124 has glass lenses that don't yellow (but you still can't replace just the lens).

All of this (and more) is not to say that the 210 is not as good a car as the 124 (in some ways it's better) but it's less DIY service friendly and you need to be aware of what you're getting into. The 124 has similarities to your 123 but the 210 is almost entirely new. Personally, I'd much rather work on my '95 than my '96. YMMV.

Jeremy