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  #61  
Old 09-14-2014, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
Anyway I finally got a chance to download the diagram and take a look.

I'm fairly new to Mercedes and all my time so far has been on 123s but I think I see what is going on here. The 123 electrical manual spans about a dozen pages and it is crazy simple compared to a 124. I hate to think what's going on in my wife's 2012 Honda Pilot

Issue #1, no dash lights
I think the N40 relay is like a 'rheostat repeater'. It takes a 12 V reference signal on pin 4 (58d) from the dash rheostat. The items on 58d (mostly on the left side of page 130/3) are directly off the rheostat.

The reference signal on pin 4 has 12 V on it when you have your lights on because you are getting good voltage there, and you said your main cluster lights were working.

Pin 2 (58D) is the output. N40 takes power from pin 1 and electronically regenerates a signal on pin 2 that is a copy of what it is seeing on pin 4. I suspect they did this because there are too many bulbs for the dash rheostat to handle by itself (unlike in the 123, everything is off the rheostat, but I have about 10% of the bulbs you do). They wanted to keep the critical bulbs direct off the rheostat (instruments), but the less important items got relegated to N40.

When you tried to tie Pin 1 (12 V from fuse 9) to Pin 2 (the remainder of the lighting circuit that is not working) you blew fuse 9. That leads me to believe, as you do, that you have a short in your lighting circuit.

Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to use a multimeter to find a short in a circuit with incandescent bulbs. The cold resistance of an incandescent filament is nearly zero; as the filament heats up, the resistance increases to anywhere from several ohms (brake lights) to several hundred ohms (dash lights), inversely proportional to the wattage of the bulb.

Here is a trick to try:
Go to the parts store (or look around in your parts stash) for an automotive bulb socket with wire leads and a 12 V bulb. You want a bulb that is normally used for brake or turn signals. Wire the bulb socket across pin 1 and pin 2 of your N40 socket. This puts the bulb in series with the remainder of the lighting circuit. If you have a downstream short, the test bulb will glow brightly. The advantage is that the bulb limits the current, so you won't blow the F9 fuse while you track down the short, and it gives you a visual indication of what is going on.

Unfortunately you are going to have to bite the bullet and pull your console so you can lift wires at X6/1 one by one to find the shorted one. When you remove the shorted wire, the test bulb will go dim or all the way dark.

That damaged wire pack in your B pillar is certainly suspicious. There is a wire from the output of N40 in that wire pack that goes to the window control switch in the left rear door. (Was this the car that got hit in the left side?)

Once you get the short fixed, you can temporarily run without N40 by jumping pins 1 and 2, the lights will just be at full brightness. If you smoked your N40, try cracking the case, strip out the guts, and solder a wire between pins 1 and 2 for a good temporary fix. The fuse is 8 Amps, so #16 wire is plenty sufficient.

Issue #2, weird tail lights
That is a classic lost ground situation. Fix the bad ground connection and you will be all set.
What is happening is that your left side brake and tail lights share a common ground point. Normally the power for the left side tail lights flows like this:
fuse -> head light switch -> tail light -> ground.

And your brake lights go: fuse -> brake pedal switch -> brake light -> ground.

In both these circuits, the ground is the metal frame of the tail light assembly. There is a wire that brings that frame back to the actual ground on the body. I think you are on the right track that the wire is loose and probably needs to be reattached.

When you lose the left side ground, the power tries to get to ground any way it can. Now the power goes:
fuse -> light switch -> left tail light -> shared ground that isn't really grounded -> left brake light bulb -> brake light circuit (which is at 0 V since you aren't on the brake) -> right brake light bulb -> right side ground.

Your bulbs glow dimly because you have effectively put 3 bulbs in series. The brake bulbs are higher wattage so they glow brighter than the tail bulbs.

When you step on the brake in this condition, you bring the brake light circuit to 12 V. This causes the voltage across the tail light bulb to go to zero, because both sides of the tail light bulb now have 12 V on them. This makes the tail light go out when you step on the brake while the brake lights illuminate normally.
I have an issue with the lamps that are controlled by N40 staying ON, when the ignition switch is OFF.

Once the car is started ('93 W124 500E) or the ignition switch in position 2 (right before starter cranking), the N40-controlled lamps go out.

I checked for a short (0-ohms) on pin#2 to ground of N40, and no shorts.
I also verified that pin#3 should be to ground, and it is.

I also removed the instrument cluster so that cluster rhetostat is removed from the circuit, and the N40-controlled lamps still stay on.

Is the failure status of N40 to always be ON (connect pin#1 and pin#2).

TIA,
:-) neil

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  #62  
Old 09-14-2014, 11:53 PM
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Yes I would suspect the N40 has failed shorted.

The N40 is basically a current amplifier and a short on the output stage would send direct battery voltage right to the output.

What happens when you remove N40 from its socket?
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The OM 642/722.9 powered family
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2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
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  #63  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
Yes I would suspect the N40 has failed shorted.

The N40 is basically a current amplifier and a short on the output stage would send direct battery voltage right to the output.

What happens when you remove N40 from its socket?
If I remove N40 from it's socket, N40-controlled lamps go out. If I remove Fuse #9, N40-controlled lamps also go out. As such, I'm pretty sure it can't be a wire short like in the B-pillar to the rear doors.

I also removed the "signal/instrument cluster dimmer" from pin#4, by opening the connector and removing the GY/BU wire. and plugged N40 back in, and still got the N40-conrolled lamps to be lit.

I opened up N40 (pn# 003.545.63.32), and it's not just one transistor, and definitely no mechanical relay. I counted 4-transistors, with the TO-220 BDX78 (PNP) sharing a large heatsink with a power resistor, and a LM2901N Quad Single Supply Comparator, along with a couple of caps, and numerous diodes and resistors.

N40 didn't pass the sniff test. Something is burnt. I have a parts car . . .

BTW: What component could fail shorted and pass full voltage/current ?

:-) neil

FWIW, it seems like it has been superceeded by 004.545.08.32, which based on pics, doesn't have a large heatsink (perhaps inside the case). I'll pull one from the '95 donor, but I'm wondering if the superceeded part is more reliable.
Attached Thumbnails
W124 electrical fun: Two problems-img_20140915_003808.jpg   W124 electrical fun: Two problems-img_20140915_003910.jpg   W124 electrical fun: Two problems-n40.jpg  

Last edited by ke6dcj; 09-15-2014 at 01:17 AM.
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  #64  
Old 09-15-2014, 11:19 PM
jay_bob's Avatar
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I would still check the wiring harnesses to the rear doors. You could have had an intermittent short that fried your N40.

That big transistor would fail shorted and pass full voltage if you had a downstream short.

__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
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