Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-09-2012, 01:47 PM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
Smoke. Clouds and clouds of smoke. 1984 300sd

84 300sd
It is smoking ridiculous amounts. I have to turn it off at a stoplight to not be enveloped in smoke.

Earlier this winter it was smoking a bit and also had a clanky hammering/nailing noise in the engine.
I did the valves and ran a Diesel Purge can via the looped bottle method and changed the filters.
The noise seemed to settle down but the smoking continued.

Now in the warmer weather it is no longer making hammering bad engine sounds but the smoke is eco-terrorist levels.
The smoke is white to gray-ish. Black smoke only during hard acceleration.
It does not seem to be consuming oil or water. The underside of the oil cap is regular black color.
Holding a piece of paper at the exhaust it doesn't get wet or black.

I've tried the following recently:
Take a bit of motor oil out so that the level with a cold engine and dipstick wiped once is level with the top of the range.
Cleaned the banjo bolt and line to the alda,
Left the fuel cap off and drove around.
Loosened each of the 17mm bolts on the injectors one at a time. Each one will change the sound of the idle (lowers it).
Changed the primary filter again (goldenrod bowl type)
Search smoke topics here on the forum.
Open hood and stare at engine blankly.

Repeating the last two steps over and over again.

I'm feeling a bit lost and scared this could be the end of an old friend as this seems like some serious internal engine bad mojo that is beyond my ability.

What should I try next to diagnose this?

__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by angst View Post
.
The smoke is white to gray-ish.



It does not seem to be consuming oil or water.


It is impossible to develop that much smoke without consuming either oil or water.

Your first assignment is to determine which is it............

The smell of burning oil is unmistakeable.

The smell of coolant going through the combustion is less noticable but will still impart a noticeable sweet smell to the exhaust.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,539
I suspect it is the turbo. My friend's SD was a smoke machine until the turbo was replaced.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 1,549
I chuckled a bit thinking of your last two steps of diagnosis. Benz there done that a few times myself.

Possible that you have an injector that is totally shot.
__________________
Current fleet
2006 E320 CDI
1992 300D - 5speed manual swapped

former members
1984 300D "Blues Mobile"

1978 300CD "El Toro"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:31 PM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
Quote:
It is impossible to develop that much smoke without consuming either oil or water.
Your first assignment is to determine which is it.
On further reflection I have added water on occasions. I've been maybee 500 miles since the smoke started and I've added 4 to 6 cups. I don't log these small top ups in my maintenance notes so I don't really know how often I have done that historically but I would say I add that much a couple times a year at least.
Over the past couple years it is probably transitioned to a high ratio of water to antifreeze now. Ill go run and get some mo' antifreeze now so a sweet smell will be apparent if its burning.
Quote:
I suspect it is the turbo. My friend's SD was a smoke machine until the turbo was replaced.
will peering into the turbo at the intake tell me anything about it's health?
__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Simpler=Better's Avatar
Ham Shanker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by angst View Post

Open hood and stare at engine blankly.
My favorite diagnostic step :p

To check the turbo, with the car off try to wiggle the impeller. It should go side to side a little, but "no" play forward and back.

Is your air filter completely plugged to the point of restricting air?
__________________
$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
Smoke diagnoses require a video.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-09-2012, 06:00 PM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
Quote:
To check the turbo, with the car off try to wiggle the impeller. It should go side to side a little, but "no" play forward and back
It checks out. About 1/8th inch play side to side or up and down but no play pushing or pulling.
Quote:
Is your air filter completely plugged to the point of restricting air
very recent cleaning of K+N filter. Made a big project of it actually because I couldn't get it completely white.
Quote:
Smoke diagnoses require a video
I just went out and shot some. Will try get a short digestible clip of it cut up and uploaded to dropbox or youtube or something as soon as I can.

Smoke didn't seem as bad while I was out filming and driving but I was waved down by a car beside me on the road and told "sir, your bumper is on fire"
__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:43 AM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
look out Tarantino. After a hard night of video editing I have this 1 minute choppy horror show of bad cuts. clips of the smoke.
True to showing up at the mechanic syndrome it is actually not smoking all that bad in the video, but you can see the color.
__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:17 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by angst View Post
look out Tarantino. After a hard night of video editing I have this 1 minute choppy horror show of bad cuts. clips of the smoke.
True to showing up at the mechanic syndrome it is actually not smoking all that bad in the video, but you can see the color.
The color is whitish/grey.............but, we already knew that from the original description.

Go down to the exhaust pipe and smell the smoke............report back with results. Either it's coolant, or it's oil. I'm sure you can determine which.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-10-2012, 11:20 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Is all the smoking coming out of the back of the car or does it come from the front too?
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:20 PM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
Brian, here is the link to my scratch and sniff sample...
OK, there is no scratch and sniff sample.

There is no sweetness to the smell at all. Any coolant in there is masked well by more powerful forces.
Oil smell? Maybe. It doesn't have any of the distinctive burnt oil smell like you smell when someone has blown a head gasket. It is really smelly though. Like smellier than you would expect just fuel to be.
Wouldn't there be more sooty blackness coming out of the exhaust if it was oil? If you hold a paper up to the exhaust it does not turn black or wet.
Video clip of paper held up to exhaust right after car started. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a26zhf52rv7jneb/paperexhaust.mp4

Do you think it could be fuel? I haven't fiddled with pump timing or linkage settings. I found a thread last night talking about if pump timing is off it will make for partially combusted fuel and lots of white-ish smoke.

Quote:
is all the smoking coming out of the back of the car or does it come from the front too
there are some holes in the exhaust 3/4ths of the way back so the smoke kind of wafts up all over. There doesn't seem to be any smoke coming directly from the engine that I have noticed.
__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:41 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,841
is it hard to start? the chain stretch could be SOOOOO far retarding the pump that it's just BARELY getting the fuel in on the compression stroke... and mostly unburned fuel is being exhausted...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:52 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
This whole black smoke, white smoke, blue smoke thing seems to be best described here

Diesel Engine Smoke Explained - United Diesel, Shropshire
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:40 PM
angst's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chattanooga TN
Posts: 272
That's a pretty nice little reference there. Using that prompts me to mention some things that seem relevant now.

It is not really hard to start after an overnight sit. After it is warm it is just as easy starting as any gasser with no glow plug time needed.
I did find that the turbo wastegate hose was loose yesterday but that was fixed before I took the vids.
It does seem to lack power particularly at low rpm. It's hard to say for sure though since it is inherently kind of like that anyway.

Do y'all agree my smoke is mostly white?
according to that link
Quote:
White Smoke
Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly. The smoke will burn your eyes.
Engine/pump timing out
Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly
Low engine compression
Water/petrol in the fuel
in that vein of thinking:
The smoke certainly irritates your throat.
There is always some air in my big goldenrod filter lately that I can't seem to purge. There is a flaw in the threads that could be letting some air in. Could an air leak into the fuel cause this?

What about timing? Is investigating the timing chain or pump timing my next step?

__________________
84 300SD 274K
38K miles on flatplate heat exchanger and various diesel/veg blends. prior to that 4K miles on unheated veggie blends with kero and DinoD.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page