Rocker arm installation on 617 turbo?
 

Hello, Is there a way that you can install the rocker arms without turning the engine? Thanks

Nope not with the cam fitted!

I worked out that there are two "sweet" spots; one where the first group fit in nicely and one where the second group fits in nicely. I don't know if that's the case for the larger lobed turbo cam though (this was for my non turbo OM617).

Why can't you turn the crank? Why don't you want to turn the crank?

I wouldn't try the "smart" install head, camshaft and rocker arms in one go trick - you'll be fighting against the valve springs and you'll probably damage the rocker arm towers (which are something like 200 or 300 euros a piece at the dealer) or even end up cross threading a bolt in the head...

I guess we don't want to turn the crank because I haven't got the large timing gear on yet. I was waiting on vstech to get me a picture of the orientation of the gear that drives the sls pump. There are two sides to the gear and I want to put the gear back the way it came out. My paint marker must have got worn off, so I can't remember which side of the gear faces out. There is a rough side and a machined side with two divits in it. I expect those divits to say which way faces out....but don't know the answer.

So then you have answered my question as to when the large timing gear goes on....before the rocker arms. I don't want to make any contact with valves hitting pistons......since the #1 is atdc I would have to be careful. Thanks

I removed and re-installed my Rocker Arms when I did my Valve Stem Seal change. And, don't recall any particular issue or problem.

When I did the re-insall I had the Valve Adjusting Nuts all of the way down; that allowed the max room to shove the Rocker Arms over them.

So it looks like the Camshaft can get installed and then the Gear/Timig Chain or you can install an new Timing Chain at that point.
Not having the Rocker Arms on will allow you to easily turn the Engine.

If by accident you installed the Timing Chain off a few teeth; with the Rocker Arms out the Vallves cannot go down to interfere with Engine Rotation; makine it easier to correct the problem.

Got the rocker arms in, guys. I installed the timing gear and everything asssociated with the timing chain so I could rotate the engine. I could be wrong but I don't think it is possible without moving the engine position from atdc.The front two cyl. (bank of two) and then torque down the rocker arm tower and then move the engine to the sweet spot like Army was talking about to install the last three cyls. (bank of three).
I have rotated the engine by hand and adjusted all the valves. I might wait for those springs to settle over supper and recheck them.

Is there a way to double check my timing now or would it just be lining up the washer behind the cam with the mark on the cam tower and check position of balancer disc marks....to make sure they are in the same spot as when I started?

I think the hard stuff is done now and it is just a matter of putting the small stuff back on. I am still kind of curious about the sls pump drive stuff, to see if I got it right. I guess I had a 50/50 chance.

Many Thanks Army and others for helping me at all hours of the past two days. You are once again "DA Man in Amsterdam"

I get the impression you're using the old timing chain - am I right?

If so the way forward is to do the 2mm lift method as detailed here

PeachPartsWiki: Measuring Timing Chain Stretch

Putting it back as it was is a good first step. But now you want it to be as close as possible to how it should be - don't you?

(In fact 'cos I enjoy playing with these things I did the 2mm lift method as a check when I installed a new timing chain - just to make sure - I wasn't paranoid - I wasn't worried!)

Yes I am using the old chain still. I read that attachment you put up. I have a dial indicator. I may do this 2mm lift method tomorrow if it looks easy enough to rig with the dial indicator base I have. I hooked up the turbo, I just need to do the line to the back of the filter tower. What do you think about putting some rubber bicycle inner tube around the clamping points for that turbo line. I was thinking of maybe sandwiching some in there to avoid the line getting worn through as I have heard can happen.

I don't have a turbo so I'm not 100% sure which bit you mean.

I guess you're talking something like a P clip with a bit of rubber in it - but making that kind of solution for yourself.

PM some one who does this type of small modification to their cars like funola, diesel911 etc to see what they think.

I ended up using just the original clamp...as the rubber prevented the holes from lining up. Thanks

anyone have a trick for getting the rocker arms towers back in? I can't seem to get the bearing collars to go in thier holes on the head AND the slots in the shaft on the center for the bolts to slide thru to line up in the bolt holes. Maddening. I MUST be doing something wrong.

FSM says just put them back in...yeah well they dont seem to fit..wth???

LOL

I almost seems the shaft in the middle with the cutouts for the bolts that hold the rocker towers in place is too long...but it cant be..it's the one that came off the car!! Anyone have any ideas?


I guess its a good thing I couldn't figure it out....I just figured out I'm supposed to put the sprocket back on...and I guess change the timing chain first.

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/6859/r...rmissue002.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/897/rockerarmissue006.jpg

The group of 3 rocker arms fit over cylinders 3,4 and 5 => they go at the back.

The group of 2 fit on the front.

It is possible to get them to fit the wrong way round but you end up with terrible problems...

...read on if you have the time!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/292821-om617-rocker-arm-problem-2.html

my group of three came off the front..... I know because I took them off and one of the little collars that sticks out of the bottom of the cam tower into the head stayed stuck in the tower... all of them except the one at the very front...stayed in the head

So I dont mean to contradict you.... :(

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6...efronttowe.jpg

I can totally believe that they were fitted with the group of three on the front cylinders - I bought my car like that - if you scan through that thread I posted the evidence of my experience is there to see.

If you actually manage to fit the group of two over the back cylinders you will probably be able to see that the axle rod bends - the rocker arm faces on my engine were running on their corners digging into the cam surface.

I'll try and find some more proof for you but perhaps this picture nabbed from EPC will help sow another seed of doubt?

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1357162155

The front of the picture is the front of the engine.

sooo...someone DID have this head apart before and put it back together incorrectly?

and I need to dig the collar out of the head and swap the trains around???


NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT!!

There is some galling on the rear most rocker lobe that hits the valve stem cap....machinist who did the porting smoothed it out best he could without screwing with the curve of the arm face he also was 100 percent convinced the head had been done before, the valve guides (once we figured it out and dialed gauged them right) were like new.


Running to the EPC now...I Just pulled the collar out of the rocker tower base....

Good luck - sorry to have been the bearer of bad news. Be careful with the rocker arm towers - according to chad300td (or is it tdt?) the turbo towers are different from the non turbo towers. Have a look at his recent head thread. Perversely it seems as though the non turbo towers have taken over the planet but the turbo ones are no longer available. There's a slight difference between them.

If I were you I'd check to make sure that the axles on which the rocker arms swivel are damage free. Mine were scored and bent.