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  #31  
Old 07-31-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
He's already removed the valve cover.
Well then marking a chain link and rotating the engine until it re-appears will answer the question about the timing chain. Those parts don't quite look like chain pieces to me anyway, but I'm not sure what they are. A couple look like valve keepers. Time for further disassembly... guessing isn't going to fix anything.

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  #32  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:07 AM
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If not valve keepers, could those be little roller bearing races? Vacuum pump pieces parts?
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  #33  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cullennewsom View Post
If not valve keepers, could those be little roller bearing races? Vacuum pump pieces parts?
Post #10 says he pulled the vac pump and "everything looked ok", but no photos were posted on the vac pump or timing device.

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Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
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  #34  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for all the opinions. I will try to piece and glue the parts together and take a picture of the VP. That may give a clue to where they came from. I will take my time to look at the issues.
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  #35  
Old 07-31-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Post #10 says he pulled the vac pump and "everything looked ok", but no photos were posted on the vac pump or timing device.

Missed that one, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Thanks for all the opinions.
Mine was wild guessing. I'm not sure I'd give it as much credit as even an opinion!
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  #36  
Old 07-31-2012, 02:41 PM
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I agree. Some of those pieces do look like valve keepers. Did you look closely at the valves to see if they are all right?
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  #37  
Old 07-31-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I agree. Some of those pieces do look like valve keepers. Did you look closely at the valves to see if they are all right?
What are valve keepers? Do you have a picture? I do not know engine internal very well.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

2 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #38  
Old 07-31-2012, 03:01 PM
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They're little semi-circular pieces that go around the top of the valve stem to hold the valve spring around the valve. If the keepers came loose, you should see a valve with a spring sticking out beyond the stem. I suppose it's also possible that someone replaced a valve spring and inadvertently left some keepers on top of the head which eventually fell into the chain cavity and got mixed up with the chain.

Have you rotated the chain thru a whole cycle yet and taken a close look at all the links?
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
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1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
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  #39  
Old 07-31-2012, 03:08 PM
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Valve keepers (aka collets) look like the photo below, two per valve stem:



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Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
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  #40  
Old 07-31-2012, 03:11 PM
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If I am not mistaken, the head uses "buckets" (cam lobes push on the buckets instead of followers) on top of the valves, so the retainers would be under each bucket. I find it hard to believe the shredded parts would be valve stem retainers. They look more like chain rollers or bearing races to me.....Rich
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  #41  
Old 07-31-2012, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I find it hard to believe the shredded parts would be valve stem retainers. They look more like chain rollers or bearing races to me.....Rich
I really can't tell from the shrapnel photos, but the shape looks wrong to be a valve keeper. I'd still pull the cam and inspect the top end for grins, just to eliminate that possibility. Pulling the cam is way easier than pulling the oil pan or timing cover.

The large cylindrical chunks show in post #25 look too big to be part of a chain. I'm thinking something related to the oil pump, or chain rail pins, or vac pump, or timer....?

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Dave M.
Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Last edited by gsxr; 07-31-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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  #42  
Old 07-31-2012, 04:22 PM
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Post 25 , first picture.

The parts in the lower area of the picture are chain rollers.

The parts in the upper portion look like parts of bearing shells that have been pounded out due to lack of oil. ( Bearing shells have a steel backing that gets foil thin then the bearing pounds out. )

Does this engine use a chain drive oil pump like the one in a prior pic? If so, you should be able to see the chain with the valve cover off or oil pan cover off.
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  #43  
Old 07-31-2012, 04:39 PM
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Chain drive oil pump but a separate single row chain between crank and oil pump from double row chain between crank, cam and IP.

There is no path from the valve keepers to the sump if the lifters are in place, right?

Here's a picture of an early style vacuum pump about to let go -



The bushings on both ends of the rocker shaft are about the size of the shrapnel being investigated.

ah-kay, how does the roller coaster track on the IP timer look? Is it scored like the pump was straining against it?

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  #44  
Old 07-31-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Valve keepers (aka collets) look like the photo below, two per valve stem:
I do not think it is. The thicken part is on the outside and on both ends. It is a ring and not half. It is very small and cannot be that heavy duty. I have no-oped the car with DMV. I am going to put together the fragments, if possible, and take a picture. I think most of the fragments are there. I really like to get this car running again.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

2 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2012, 05:00 PM
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Bob, maybe we can go in on this together- 1986 Mercedes 300SDL Turbo Diesel
You can use the engine, and I can use whats left...Rich
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