Front wheel bearings too big, now what?

[Adriel]

Apparently the 280TE came with Febi Germany bearings, as the bearings are Koyo like the kits purchased off eBay. The outer bearings were over heated, even the spindle is marred and slightly discolored, and fit loose on the spindles.

Thinking the heat caused the bearings not to fit right, took a cabbie 45 minutes each way, spent all day in hot and humid weather, and pulled a set off a W126 with ABS as need the speed sensor mount (the 280TE has ABS).

The other day received the Febi Germany front wheel bearing kit, 126 330 00 51, and it too had loose bearings. So grabbed the FAG German bearings from the W126 (couldn't afford the rotors so didn't get the inner bearings or races) and they fit all four spindles just right.

Since my Dad has not repaid me (stupid me for loaning money to someone that wouldn't loan me money) I literally have nothing in my account. So, am confirming there is no solution in using the bearings and races from the '79 with the FAG German bearings?

Thank y'all in advance!

[Dan Stokes]

As long as the bearings fit and are in good shape they should be fine. I the future, just take the old bearings (assuming they fit properly) down to your local bearing store (pretty much any town of a decent size will have one) and they'll match them up by size. If the bearing measures the same and meets the other specs it'll work properly. They don't need to come from Germany or any other particular place.

Dan

[vstech]

First off...

NEVER reuse races...

If the spindle got galled up, you may need to change the spindle.

Go back and get it from the yard...
All 123 and 126 spindles are the same.

Find a set with good ball joints and get a double bonus steering improvement.

[Adriel]

Thank you John for the help, appreciated.

Originally Posted by vstech

First off...

NEVER reuse races...

Then why do the kits not come with the outer races?

Is LM48510 the correct cone?

Originally Posted by vstech

If the spindle got galled up, you may need to change the spindle.

Or if it was overheated.

Originally Posted by vstech

Go back and get it from the yard...
All 123 and 126 spindles are the same.

Actually W123 and W126 brake rotors and calipers are different. After about five or six months, doubt still there.

Originally Posted by vstech

Find a set with good ball joints and get a double bonus steering improvement.

How do you know if the ball joint is good?

Already bought most of the suspension components, even got new springs and pads that were going to go on the wrecked Mercedes, everything is cleared out except the tie rods as still had their Mercedes foil stickers and feel good. Also reusing the upper control arms off the wrecked Mercedes as basically brand new. Think might do the same for the main dampers, as the money that was supposed to come didn't. Should feel absolutely amazing, though more important last longer as all is new and be a whole lot safer than what was there.

[Adriel]

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

As long as the bearings fit and are in good shape they should be fine. I the future, just take the old bearings (assuming they fit properly) down to your local bearing store (pretty much any town of a decent size will have one) and they'll match them up by size. If the bearing measures the same and meets the other specs it'll work properly. They don't need to come from Germany or any other particular place.

Dan

Dan, thank you, appreciated.

I had the German FAG bearings checked by two people, both been working on vehicals for over 40 years. One does it as a side job restoring Mustangs. Both agreed since roll free, no loss of plating and no scuffs/scratches good to go. That's why even considered. If there was any doubt, just wait.

Besides, doubt now with the pace of things and funds, that the driveline be in by the new year. Big thing is need an angle torque guage that forgot about and didn't purchase months ago. Life happens while making plans and we just have to be flexible.

[BillGrissom]

I wonder about "never re-use race" comment. If the race looks good (still shiny), I just replace the cone (tapered rollers). It is much harder to replace the race and if not careful, the new one will later spin and ruin the hub (been there, 69 Dart). Most tapered bearings are sold as separate race and cone, which sort of implies they can be replaced separately, though it also allows more combinations of ID & OD. Some are packaged as a set, like the Timken SET3 & SET5 (National A3 & A5) used in my 1984 & 85 300D's (also old Chevy trucks).

[Zulfiqar]

shiny is not a measurement, the race wears down as a companion mate to the rollers (like chain and sprocket).

removing and installing races isnt that difficult specially if you loan out the race installer from autozone.

It can be punched out with a brass drift and you can also use your household oven to evenly warm up the hub before installing a cold race.

[Diesel911]

The manual calls for a procedure with a dial indicator to set the end paly. I did not use the dial indicator the first time and overheated the grease in mine and had to do the job over after removing the roasted grease.
Since the time I did the above when I had the had the Hub off of the Spindle I always adjusted it with a dial indicator and that has always worked 100% for me.

like a lot of people I had like 45+ years of previous experience just doing that by feel with no dial indicator on other vehicles I have owned since 1968 but that filed to work for me on the Mercedes.

[leathermang]

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I wonder about "never re-use race" comment. If the race looks good (still shiny), I just replace the cone (tapered rollers). It is much harder to replace the race and if not careful, the new one will later spin and ruin the hub (been there, 69 Dart). Most tapered bearings are sold as separate race and cone, which sort of implies they can be replaced separately, though it also allows more combinations of ID & OD. Some are packaged as a set, like the Timken SET3 & SET5 (National A3 & A5) used in my 1984 & 85 300D's (also old Chevy trucks).

That is just wrong thinking..
Replace them in sets
grind the outside of the old race to use to install the new race evenly...
Yes.. the FSM shows using the dial indicator for a reason...
Also, some of our old Mercedes has one time use crush washers to use when setting the wheel bearing tightness.. get some extras if your car uses them because once you have gone past the proper distance.. as indicated with the dial indicator.. you have to take it off and put a new one on.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by Adriel

Then why do the kits not come with the outer races?

That's a lot like asking why hamburger buns don't come with ground beef.

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Most tapered bearings are sold as separate race and cone, which sort of implies they can be replaced separately...

Lets not confuse logistics considerations with good maintenance practices.

http://www.skf.com/binary/81-61236/457809.pdf

[Adriel]

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I wonder about "never re-use race" comment. If the race looks good (still shiny), I just replace the cone (tapered rollers). It is much harder to replace the race and if not careful, the new one will later spin and ruin the hub (been there, 69 Dart). Most tapered bearings are sold as separate race and cone, which sort of implies they can be replaced separately, though it also allows more combinations of ID & OD. Some are packaged as a set, like the Timken SET3 & SET5 (National A3 & A5) used in my 1984 & 85 300D's (also old Chevy trucks).

Bill, thank you for the help.

That was my question: is Timken Set 5 correct, as on the manufacture website states an inner bearing diameter that is far in excess of the 22mm spindle diameter.

As for also being on Chevrolet trucks, been saying feel like am working on a truck when working on the Mercedes and sure enough, was more right than I thought.

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

shiny is not a measurement, the race wears down as a companion mate to the rollers (like chain and sprocket).

removing and installing races isnt that difficult specially if you loan out the race installer from autozone.

It can be punched out with a brass drift and you can also use your household oven to evenly warm up the hub before installing a cold race.

Thank you for the help.

Not disagreeing, just want to understand. So is lack of bearing play in the race sufficient to determine a discrepancy in wear?

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The manual calls for a procedure with a dial indicator to set the end paly. I did not use the dial indicator the first time and overheated the grease in mine and had to do the job over after removing the roasted grease.
Since the time I did the above when I had the had the Hub off of the Spindle I always adjusted it with a dial indicator and that has always worked 100% for me.

like a lot of people I had like 45+ years of previous experience just doing that by feel with no dial indicator on other vehicles I have owned since 1968 but that filed to work for me on the Mercedes.

Thank you for the help.

Yes, I have the paper FSMs and have read the wheel bearing instructions. Life happened and unable to get the dial guage. Hoping someone local I can drive to and get them set correctly. Do you think one drive wipe the bearings out?

Originally Posted by leathermang

That is just wrong thinking..
Replace them in sets
grind the outside of the old race to use to install the new race evenly...
Yes.. the FSM shows using the dial indicator for a reason...
Also, some of our old Mercedes has one time use crush washers to use when setting the wheel bearing tightness.. get some extras if your car uses them because once you have gone past the proper distance.. as indicated with the dial indicator.. you have to take it off and put a new one on.

Thank you for the help.

Good idea about using the old race to press in the new race, will be doing that on the inners which fit.

But in a tight situation, can used bearings in used races work long enough until the bread is available to replace? Is it Timken sets 3 and 5?

Originally Posted by tangofox007

That's a lot like asking why hamburger buns don't come with ground beef.




Lets not confuse logistics considerations with good maintenance practices.

http://www.skf.com/binary/81-61236/457809.pdf

TF, thank you for the help.

One can get a bun with their ground beef, just have to go to the right place and pay more.

So then what is the Timken correct bearing and race numbers please?

[BillGrissom]

I replaced just the cone in my 1984 300D about 4 yrs ago, leaving the good race in place. Quick and easy and no problems since. No problem if the race wears as long as the surface stays flat. If not, you would see ripples and should replace it. I just set the play like I do on my old U.S. cars since isn't any different. I don't mind if others want to use a dial indicator on their cars. I don't have time for the finicky processes and special tools shown in the Mercedes FSM, and doubt most professional mechanics do either. I have an MS in Mech Engr so am allowed to think for myself.

[BillGrissom]

Originally Posted by Adriel

... is Timken Set 5 correct

I don't know your car, mine are W123 300D's, which I recall use SET3 & SET5 front wheel bearings. But, even for those nobody should rely on my memory, check PeachParts and rock.

[Adriel]

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I replaced just the cone in my 1984 300D about 4 yrs ago, leaving the good race in place. Quick and easy and no problems since. No problem if the race wears as long as the surface stays flat. If not, you would see ripples and should replace it. I just set the play like I do on my old U.S. cars since isn't any different. I don't mind if others want to use a dial indicator on their cars. I don't have time for the finicky processes and special tools shown in the Mercedes FSM, and doubt most professional mechanics do either. I have an MS in Mech Engr so am allowed to think for myself.

Bill, than you for confirming that abandoning the ideal does work if careful and know the risk.

If can find the tool to use, then will. I love tedious and fiddly work.

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I don't know your car, mine are W123 300D's, which I recall use SET3 & SET5 front wheel bearings. But, even for those nobody should rely on my memory, check PeachParts and rock.

Thank you so much.

If you have used Set 5, then that is what fits and the specifications are wrong. I don't believe everything said and written, believing more in experience and the tangible.

[C.Doner]

if those spindles are damaged replace them. It is a critical safety point. I would not drive around much that way. I dont want you to go over a cliff. If you post some pics for us to see it would help.