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  #16  
Old 08-05-2012, 10:19 AM
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Can anyone help the OP on the hydrolock type experience he describes in post 11? It seems like it cannot be mechanical since it turned many many times before this occurred. Also, it seems unlikely that something mechanical broke or got badly adjusted with the car simply parked for 4 years.

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  #17  
Old 08-05-2012, 10:33 AM
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Since you've gone so far, remove the glow plugs and see if it turns. But to remove the glow plugs, you need to remove the IP lines and the cross over pipe.

And I hope you're 100% right in the direction that you turned the crank.
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  #18  
Old 08-05-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldschoolgwin View Post
Thanks great info.

The drain plug surface has a defect, a tunnel about 5mm in depth into the surface - hence the leak. I've never seen this before. I think filling it is the only option - though i can't imagine an epoxy resting the copper washer squeeze. Any ideas?
Clean the surface area - degrease it. mix up a little JB weld. Fill in the hole with JB weld. As long as you got all the oil out of the hole, JB weld will stick to it, no worries about the copper washer.
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  #19  
Old 08-05-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mespe View Post
Since you've gone so far, remove the glow plugs and see if it turns. But to remove the glow plugs, you need to remove the IP lines and the cross over pipe.

And I hope you're 100% right in the direction that you turned the crank.
Definitely 100% correct about the engine rotation CW direction and that matches the fan rotation as well.

I spun it over again today - the resistance happens at the exact same location on the crank rotation at every rotation. If I back up the crank about 15 degrees from the point resistance spot and get a little momentum it will pass by it w/o too much trouble. But starting from a stop and turning is too difficult with a 1/2" ratchet. I can see that I may not have noticed the resistance initially as if i had a good pace on the rotation it would have turned past the resistance.

I pulled #1 glow plug - no difference. I think i'm inclined to pull the valve cover and check timing marks as that seems easier than the pulling the glow plugs (painful)


My concern at this point would not be hydraulic lock, but did the timing chain jump when i backed up the first time? I found the degree marks on the harmonic balancer but not positive what the alignment mark on the block is?
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  #20  
Old 08-05-2012, 10:08 PM
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Update on valve timing inspection

Can anyone confirm i am looking at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer correctly.

First pic is just engine with valve cover off.

Second picture is cam timing nearly allingned (this is where the resistance is felt on the rotation - exactly at this piont where i can not turn it past unless there is some rotational momentum)

Third is the OT mark (same as TDC?) about 3 lines before what I think is the corresponding engine mark to measurer TDC. It is at about 11 oclock and kind of a beam that goes over the outer most flange on the pulley. You can see the white OT mark but not see the engine mark in the pic but it is 3 lines (degrees?) BTDC.

If this is correct would this confirm there is not a tooth jump on the timing chain?

Also of interest the timing chain squeeks a bit as it slides on the time chain tensioner - could really here it when the valve cover was taken off. Perhaps due to no oil in 4 yrs and nothing pumped there yet?

Thanks for you help.

Paul
Attached Thumbnails
86' 300SDL - 4 yr nap recovery!-sacramento-20120805-01507.jpg   86' 300SDL - 4 yr nap recovery!-sacramento-20120805-01506.jpg   86' 300SDL - 4 yr nap recovery!-sacramento-20120805-01508.jpg  

Last edited by Oldschoolgwin; 08-05-2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason: detail
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mespe View Post
Since you've gone so far, remove the glow plugs and see if it turns. But to remove the glow plugs, you need to remove the IP lines and the cross over pipe.

And I hope you're 100% right in the direction that you turned the crank.


No no. Do not remove all of that, just pull the damned cruise servo. You can pull five of the six very easily then.
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Last edited by Hit Man X; 08-07-2012 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Cruise servo! Not the amp, sorry!
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2012, 04:43 AM
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Ok timing inspection says cams and crank are right on - so no worries about a the chain jumping. I put it all back togerther, I don't think there is much benefit to removing all the glow plugs wrt ruling out a liquid lock - pretty sure it is not that (it would be more difficult to turn over like a magnitude difffence)

I did turn it over with the starter, no unusual noises (well at least discenrable ones), likely not getting fuel as only a hint of wanting to start after 4 or 5, 7 second starter bursts. Glow plugs show good by indicator light (if that is really an indication that each is recieving sufficient current nad not shorted).

I just did a lot of reading on fuel delivery during start, bleeding, etc.
When I return in 5 days, i'll change filters to be sure they are not clogged, check fuel flow from main tank (may just syphon out remiain 10 gallons fuel into containers to see what it looks like - then add new fuel, and see if it will start (will hold pedal down or rack open as they say) while trying to start. Theoretically there shouldn't be air in the lines (yet), though it has sat for 4 yrs so who knows.

Maybe i'll need to crack the injector nuts one at a time to see if a good stream of fuel is being delivered.

Starts on Friday.

Thanks.

Last edited by Oldschoolgwin; 08-07-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2012, 04:50 AM
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Did you prefill the spin on filter? I have noticed this helps 603s start far easier...

You may have a clogged strainer in the tank. Do you drink any beverage that you purchase in one gallon sizes? If not, just buy one of those plastic five gallon Diesel fuel tanks and fill it... stuff your supply and return hoses into that. Simple, there is your portable tank that you know is fresh and without contamination and eliminates excess work along with a 'no start' variable.

I forget how the early 603 glow system works, sorry. I upgraded mine to factory afterglow long ago. A quick check to see if the plugs are good is with a basic analog Ohm meter that you can pick up at Radio Shack for about $10. 603s also like a longer glow time... so do not just flip the starter as soon as that light extinguishes.



FYI, did you know the 603 comes prefitted with a block heater? You just need to purchase the cord.
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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2012, 08:56 PM
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The "little man with the hammer" episode! Bummer!

First the success part

Retruned from vacation - saw a fuel return line was leaking - found it was a swolen temporary hose used to cap of injector 6 - no OEM stock, and the fuel tank vent clogged and hot weather pressurized the tank. So thought the filters can't be tjhat clogged.

Held fuel pedal down and it started within 5 seconds - not bad.

Though there is a little man with a hammer in the engine - quite a loud tap. Not sure if it is a valve way out of adjustment (but aren;t these hydraulic)? It sounds like it is coming from the top of the engine around the mid to back of the engine (injector #4).

Video on Youtube - constant RPM: VID 20120810 00087 - YouTube


Video on Youtube - change in engine speed: VID 20120810 00088 - YouTube

I would really appreaciate your thoughts on whet this may be and what to do next.

Thanks
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  #25  
Old 08-11-2012, 08:17 AM
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Sounds like an injector me. I would crack the lines at the injectors one at a time until you got the noise to go way. That would tell you for sure if it was knocking injector and which one.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2012, 01:40 PM
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Good to hear you got the thing back to life.
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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.
[/IMG]
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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Well my son is bit dissapointed - his first car still goes tap tap tap.


I cracked the injector lines and no discernable difference except very minor and i suspect that may be due to a lower engine speed.

I broke each line 3x's going a number of revolutions to be sure the line pressure was very relieved. No real difference.

I listened with a stethoscope all over the engine block and could not really discern the noise location - think this can be misleading.

One observation is touching injector line #5 with fingers about 3 inches away from the injector transmitted the pulse.

When i rev the engine there is some black smoke out of exhaust but not a dense cloud - but more than i would think normal.

Other possibilities:
1. Injectors are still leaking even when fuel pressure is releaved?????
2. Fuel that is 4 yrs old?
3. Bad hydraulic lifter?

Next steps?

Thx.

Paul
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2012, 04:09 PM
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Can you provide a sound clip?

Even my mobile phone can record video now.
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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.
[/IMG]
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2012, 04:18 PM
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Did you put the stethoscope tip on each injector?

Did you check the belt tensioner damper? Press a stick against the ends to see if the noise changes. Don't let the stick tangle with the fan!

If it's a lazy lifter, a couple of oil changes; i.e., 10K miles, running good synthetic might clear the noise.

Sixto
87 300D^2
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  #30  
Old 08-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Oldschoolbenz
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit Man X View Post
Can you provide a sound clip?

Even my mobile phone can record video now.
These or a sound clip with each line loose?

Video on Youtube - constant RPM: VID 20120810 00087 - YouTube


Video on Youtube - change in engine speed: VID 20120810 00088 - YouTube

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