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  #1  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:46 AM
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IP leaking at element connection

Hello,

I have a 1975 300D (W115) with an MW IP with mechanical govenor.

The fuel leak can be seen only with the car running and the area that is "wet" is in between the 1st and 2nd element connections. I decided to try and fix the leak by first replacing the copper sealing rings in pipe connections # 1 and 2. I followed the procedure outlined in the FSM but no luck the leak is still there. All the information I have found to date says that I should not remove the nuts that hold down the element connections. Has anybody have any recommendations? Does this mean the IP needs to be rebuilt?

Thank you for your help.

Marc-André

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  #2  
Old 08-10-2012, 03:07 PM
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Where did you buy the copper rings? And what procedure did you follow?
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:46 PM
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In the below pic on the left you are not supposed to remove the 13mm Nuts because when you do moving the Elements disturbs the Fuel quantity setting.
The Shims that are between the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and the Element time the Element to the individual Element to the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft.

In the 2nd pic you see one of the MW Pump Elements. The Red Arrow points to were and O-ring Goes.
Also not at the bottom of the Element you see the end of the Plunger. Both Sides of the Plunger look the same. That may mean it is possible to get the Plunger 180 degrees off if the Plunger gets rotated.

It would not hurt to Call A Fuel Injection Shop and ask if they would change the O-rings on the Elements and if they can do that without changing any of the Fuel settings.

If you insist on doing this yourself go to the side of the Fuel Injection Pump that faces the Engine Block. On that side the Elements have room where you can Scribe a line acrossed the Element and continue the line onto the Fuel Injection Pump Housing.
It is important the line is right near the parting surface of the Element to Housing.
When you pull the Element up be sure to not what direction the projections/Ears at the Bottom of the Plunger Face because it needs to go back in the same way it came out.
only do one at a time and leave the Shims in place if you can.
Besides making sure the parts go back in the same location you will need to get out a Magnifying Glass and line up those Scribed Lines.

The M8, 13mm Hexagon Nuts are torqued to Nm 20-25. I would devide the torque into at least 2 stages. Line torque both nuts to Nm 10 and then torque them to Nm 20 or 25.

I don't know if there is an O-ring on the bottom Portiono of the Element?
Attached Thumbnails
IP leaking at element connection-fuel-injection-pump-240d-closem.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-w-bosch-element-x.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 08-10-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:54 PM
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Make sure it is not the Hard Line to Delivery Valve Holder/Pipe to Fuel Injection Hard Line area that is leaking.

I did some parts looking up. There is only one O-ring shown to Seal the Element. However, there is 2 different part numbers. So who ever you get the O-rings from is going to need to know the Engine Number and or the Fuel Injection Pump Number in order to get the correct sized O-Rings.

The MSRP on the O-rings was $3.50 or $4.90 Each; depending on which part number you need.
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Last edited by Diesel911; 08-10-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:12 PM
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Govert: I tried to get the copper seals for the pipe connections from MB USA from Rusty but had no luck (NLA). I then tried MB Canada and was able to buy 12 seals (they came in packs of 5 and the date on the tag was sept 2002, I'm guessing NOS). If you need some, let me know. I followed procedure 07.210 to change the seals, (I thought the leak was at the pipe connection at the time).

Diesel911: Thank you for the info, Rusty was unable to find any copper seals for the element connection but he did send what he thought may work in a rubber version based on my VIN and pump type.

I did make an appointment to go to the dealer on Monday because from what you describe if I mess up, the pump will have to come out and the car will be disabled. There is a mechanic there who has been working on these cars (W114/115) for decades. He still remembers when my car was brand new and used to come in for service. He has helped me before with little hints and tricks for my car but as always the dealer is expensive.

I will keep you posted.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclaveau View Post
Govert: I tried to get the copper seals for the pipe connections from MB USA from Rusty but had no luck (NLA). I then tried MB Canada and was able to buy 12 seals (they came in packs of 5 and the date on the tag was sept 2002, I'm guessing NOS). If you need some, let me know. I followed procedure 07.210 to change the seals, (I thought the leak was at the pipe connection at the time).

Diesel911: Thank you for the info, Rusty was unable to find any copper seals for the element connection but he did send what he thought may work in a rubber version based on my VIN and pump type.

I did make an appointment to go to the dealer on Monday because from what you describe if I mess up, the pump will have to come out and the car will be disabled. There is a mechanic there who has been working on these cars (W114/115) for decades. He still remembers when my car was brand new and used to come in for service. He has helped me before with little hints and tricks for my car but as always the dealer is expensive.

I will keep you posted.
To change the O-ring yourself would require you to remove the Fuel Injection Pump because it is the only accurate way to scribe a line on it.

The exception might be if there is some sort of tool they can install on the IP that would allow the Element to go back in exactly where it came out. And, if there is one it has not come up on the Forums that I haunt.

Most Mechanics no matter who they work for or their experience are most often parts replacers. (There main expertise is in trouble shooting what is wrong and knowing what to replace or adjust.)
Very few Mechanics are Diesel Mechanics and way fewer of those Mechanics have experience taking Fuel Injection Pumps apart.
Few Mechanics actually rebuild stuff.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:38 AM
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You are right on the money Diesel911, the mechanic said they used to send the pumps out for repair but now MB Canada tell him to say to buy a rebuild, (due to parts availability and expertise).

Would an IP from a W115 1976 300D be a direct switch?
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclaveau View Post
You are right on the money Diesel911, the mechanic said they used to send the pumps out for repair but now MB Canada tell him to say to buy a rebuild, (due to parts availability and expertise).

Would an IP from a W115 1976 300D be a direct switch?
I don't know but why I was working under my Car Changing the Flex Discs I was thinking about your situation.
It occured to Me I had not mentioned something; that was to try re-torquing the M8 13mm Nuts.

I do not know what other Fuel Injection Pumps will interchange but there are Members that know that stuff.

Did you ever contact any Fuel Injection Shops and as what they were able to do with you situation?

Also since you know the worst Now you could just as well try to fix it and not be any worse off.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:55 PM
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NOTE: Do this only in an emergency if your pump Element O-ring is leaking and it looks like you are going to have to send it off to a shop or buy a rebuilt pump.
If you have a good pump with no problems and decide to go exploring that is on you.

If you decided to pull the Elements (one at a time) the best place to scribe a line is on the Engine Side of the Fuel Injection Pump; as that is the place that has the flattest surfaces.

The Element Flange is hardened Steel so you will need a Tungsten Carbide Scribe.

Us a Ruler and scribe the line Straight; not so easy to do.

After that take a picture of the Scribed area so that you can match it up exactly the way it came out.

Don't lose the Shims that go under the Element Flange and remember which side the shim came from.

I have an extra IP and decided to remove an Element.
So it is already been scribed. I removed the 13mm Nuts and washers. You can see the Fuel adjustment slots; this is why you are not supposed to be doing this except in an emergency.
I decided to take a measurement as a back up.
Attached Thumbnails
IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-1.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-2.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-3.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-4.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 08-13-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2012, 04:05 PM
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I carefull pried up on the Element Flanges until there was enough room to pull out the Shims. (The shims on this Elemement had 17 on them; other Elements had different numbered shims; another reason to do one Element at a time.)

When the Shims are out it is easy to insert some Screwdrivers. When you pry pry with the tip of the Screwdriver against the Element Flange because the Flange is hardened Steel and will not defore like the Aluminum Pump Housing will.
Pry up slowly because you want to see what is inside; if it suddenly pops out you may not get to see what is in there and how it is lined up.

In this case the Element Plunger stayed inside. In one of the other pics I tried to pull it out with a Clothing Pin (don't grab it with something made of
Steel or you can scratch it) but it would not come out so I left it there.

Note that the groove on the Plunger faces the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump. If you get it in 108 degrees off your Element is not going to work.
Attached Thumbnails
IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-5.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-6.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-7.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-8.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 08-13-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:17 PM
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Other pics.

I am going to look through my O-ring assortment and see if I can find one that Fits for when I re-install the Element.

I am going to buy a Can of WD-10 and hose down the Plunger inside of the Pump Housing to clean it off and do the same to the inside of the Barrel.
You could also use Diesel Fuel.

When you install the Element top over the Plunger do not force it even a little.

Re-assembly is the reverse; be sure you line up the Scribe Mark on the Element when you install it so the Fuel adjustment will be as close as possible to what it was.

I added some stuff see post #14
Attached Thumbnails
IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-9.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-10.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-11.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 08-13-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
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Great info, Diesel911.

I am having a little difficulty getting the IP off the parts car I have. I know there are 3 nuts holding the IP in the front, are there any more?
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclaveau View Post
Great info, Diesel911.

I am having a little difficulty getting the IP off the parts car I have. I know there are 3 nuts holding the IP in the front, are there any more?
You need to remove the vacuum pump and remove the bolt that holds the timing gear.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:51 PM
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I found something else after cleaning the parts that spacer goes on only one way and is a piece of stamped sheet metal.

I did not see which way it came off but am assuming that the sharp edges are pointed towads the top of the Element and not the O-ring.
Attached Thumbnails
IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-12-spacer.jpg   IP leaking at element connection-element-removal-13.jpg  
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:03 PM
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I don't believe there is any Bolt in the Front holding the Pump in but there is a Bracket in the back that has 2 Bolts holding it to the Block and one that Bolt and Nut that bolts it to the Bracket.

The Bolt and Nut are hard to get at. On mine I had to remove one of the Oil Cooler Lines off of the Oil Filter Housing to see it.

You should have read some of the DIYs on removing the Fuel Injection Pump before you started.
Repair Links
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IP leaking at element connection-fuel-injection-pump-1m.jpg  

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