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  #16  
Old 09-17-2012, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbozeke418 View Post
Where does the vacuum come from for the door locks? The trunk locks regularly but the doors do not. The previous owner says they were disconnected but I'm not sure from where. I know there is a vacuum pump in the spare tire well in the trunk. But, does the vacuum come from there? There's an electrical harness going to that also. Thanks.
Let me give it a shot. What actually is the problem?

1) You can lock/unlock the car from the trunk but not from either driver/pass doors?
2) You change the pump and the problem remains?
3) You use a mityvac and all doors locks as expected. That means all the pods and the lines are holding vacuum and the problem is electrical.

The lock/vacuum works on a very simple principle. When you lock, a switch tells the pump to suck/vacuum. When you unlock, the switch tells the pump to push. The signal is not getting to the pump from both doors. Check the connectors to the pods in both doors. I cannot remember exactly but it is a 3-wires connector and there is a yellow wire which is the sensing line. It is a 0/12v ( not sure which voltage) signal to the yellow line to lock/unlock.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2012, 03:49 AM
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Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Let me give it a shot. What actually is the problem?

1) You can lock/unlock the car from the trunk but not from either driver/pass doors?
2) You change the pump and the problem remains?
3) You use a mityvac and all doors locks as expected. That means all the pods and the lines are holding vacuum and the problem is electrical.
Sorry to confuse you. 1) I can't unlock or lock anything from any of the doors or the trunk. When I turn the key in the drunk lock you can here a little vacuum release in either direction. 2) I did change the pump and the problem still remains. 3) This is correct. I figured when I released the air they would all unlock but they don't.

Should I pull off the door panel to inspect the driver and passenger side vacuum lines? I've heard that they are electric sensors in them?
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2012, 11:27 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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You confused me alright. There is NO vacuum release in either direction. It sucks or pushes. Lets go back to basic.

1) Assuming you still have the problem.
2) Isolate the vacuum line AT the pump. Connect the mityvac to it and pull vacuum. Does it HOLD vacuum and lock ALL doors. This is fundamental.
3) If all the doors locks as expected, you said they did, the vacuum circuit is OK.
4) Remove the mityvac and blow air into the line. Either using your mouth or use compress air, very low PSI. Everything should unlock.
5) If 3 and 4 OK then there is nothing wrong with the hoses, no leak in pods.
5) Then connect the mityvac to the pump inlet. Turn trunk key to lock and does the pump work and pull vacuum in the mityvac? It should.
6) Turn key to unlock, does the mityvac vacuum drops? Back to atmosphere+.

Do not need to open the door panels yet. The pods rarely does wrong electrically. I suspect it is the wire goes from the lock to your pump.

Report back and see how we go from there.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:00 PM
eatont9999's Avatar
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
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Zeke,

Your issue does sound electrical.

I am looking for a wiring diagram for the 3 wires that connect to the vac pump. My connector got smashed, so I have 3 wires, a vac pump and no idea which wires go where. I have asked before on another thread but no one seemed to know. Perhaps your connector is in wrong?

Not trying to hijack.
__________________
1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
You confused me alright. There is NO vacuum release in either direction. It sucks or pushes. Lets go back to basic.

1) Assuming you still have the problem.
2) Isolate the vacuum line AT the pump. Connect the mityvac to it and pull vacuum. Does it HOLD vacuum and lock ALL doors. This is fundamental.
3) If all the doors locks as expected, you said they did, the vacuum circuit is OK.
4) Remove the mityvac and blow air into the line. Either using your mouth or use compress air, very low PSI. Everything should unlock.
5) If 3 and 4 OK then there is nothing wrong with the hoses, no leak in pods.
I can do all of that w/o any issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
5) Then connect the mityvac to the pump inlet. Turn trunk key to lock and does the pump work and pull vacuum in the mityvac? It should.
6) Turn key to unlock, does the mityvac vacuum drops? Back to atmosphere+.

Do not need to open the door panels yet. The pods rarely does wrong electrically. I suspect it is the wire goes from the lock to your pump.

Report back and see how we go from there.
The mityvac doesn't budge when doing this. I also don't hear the pump do a single thing.
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatont9999 View Post
Zeke,

Your issue does sound electrical.

I am looking for a wiring diagram for the 3 wires that connect to the vac pump. My connector got smashed, so I have 3 wires, a vac pump and no idea which wires go where. I have asked before on another thread but no one seemed to know. Perhaps your connector is in wrong?

Not trying to hijack.
That's totally fine....The connector can only go in one way.
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
Hi TurboZeke,

Your problem is electrical. May be just a fuse. I cannot remember exactly how the wiring goes. Someone can chime in if I am wrong.

1) Make sure the pump is powered. It is constantly connected to 12V even with car off. If you do not have power then it may be a fuse issue.
2) I think it is a 3 pins plug goes into the pump - cannot remember.
3) Use a DVM to measure: red - 12v, brown - 0v, yellow - sense line
4) The yellow line should toggle between 12 or 0 ( could be 0 or 12 ) when you lock or unlock. Try it with the trunk lock and see whether this is the case.

The yellow line tells the vac pump to suck or push. That is all there to it. I am sure you can figure it out. PM me if you are still trouble.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:26 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Hi TurboZeke,

Your problem is electrical. May be just a fuse. I cannot remember exactly how the wiring goes. Someone can chime in if I am wrong.

1) Make sure the pump is powered. It is constantly connected to 12V even with car off. If you do not have power then it may be a fuse issue.
I tested this part originally and I have constant power going to the unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
3) Use a DVM to measure: red - 12v, brown - 0v, yellow - sense line
4) The yellow line should toggle between 12 or 0 ( could be 0 or 12 ) when you lock or unlock. Try it with the trunk lock and see whether this is the case.

The yellow line tells the vac pump to suck or push. That is all there to it. I am sure you can figure it out. PM me if you are still trouble.
The color of the lines are yellow blue and brown. Can I also check #3 and #4 with a regular test light? I don't have a volt meter.
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:46 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
Test light is acceptable but not ideal. It does not show you the exact voltage level. This is what you do if you can access the pins with the plug connected. I assume blue is same as red here in your car. Brown is always chassis in MBZ.

1) Put your test light across the brown wire and chassis. It should be off to show the brown wire is at 0v.

2) Put the test light across the blue wire and chassis. It should be on to show the blue wire is at 12v.

3) Put the test light across the yellow and chassis. Then switch the trunk lock. Light should be on in one direction and off in the other.

This is the end of the line for me. It could be possible that the 'new' vacuum pump is a dud one.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Test light is acceptable but not ideal. It does not show you the exact voltage level. This is what you do if you can access the pins with the plug connected. I assume blue is same as red here in your car. Brown is always chassis in MBZ.

1) Put your test light across the brown wire and chassis. It should be off to show the brown wire is at 0v.

2) Put the test light across the blue wire and chassis. It should be on to show the blue wire is at 12v.

3) Put the test light across the yellow and chassis. Then switch the trunk lock. Light should be on in one direction and off in the other.

This is the end of the line for me. It could be possible that the 'new' vacuum pump is a dud one.
Brown wire is negative and is grounded. YELLOW is constant on. The BLUE turns on when I turn the key in one direction and the light goes off when I turn the key in the opposite direction. This is only from the drivers door. Nothing happens at all when I do it from the trunk.
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-19-2012, 10:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
I cannot offer you any more info as I do not have a 300SD. The problem is electrical. Has it ever worked before? The trunk lock/passenger door connector probably were disconnected at the pod. The yellow line should be the sensing line so I do not understand why the blue toggles. It may have been swapped.

There is one last thing you can try. Remove the plug and measure the pins at the pump connector.

1) Determine which Pin is at constant 12v.
2) Determine which Pin is chassis.
3) Determine which Pin is floating - this is the sensing line.
4) Ground the sense line and see what happens to the pump.
5) Put 12v to the sense line and see what happens to the pump. It may be better to put a 1K resister ( a light bulb may be possible ) in series just in case something blow up.

This is the end of the line for me to help you. Good luck.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
I'm an idiot. I just checked again and the yellow is the constant. I took both units out and hooked them up to a battery charger and each one makes a clicking noise. Neither one makes any sound at all when in the trunk.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram as to where I should check next to trace these lines somewhere? I'm excited that I just fixed the locks on my 1980 300TD. Now I want these working!!
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:31 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 501
I played around with the system some more tonight. When I turn the key in one direction the yellow light line depowers and the blue one powers. When I turn the key the other way the blue light depowers and the yellow stays on. Nothing happens at the passenger or trunk locks. Are either suppose to? The "new" unit was plugged in again and got so hot I couldn't touch it. Then the old unit I had doesn't do anything. If the relay works to the pump from the drivers door then maybe I bought a bad used unit? Does that sound right? I can't think of anything else it could be.
__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:18 AM
eatont9999's Avatar
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbozeke418 View Post
I played around with the system some more tonight. When I turn the key in one direction the yellow light line depowers and the blue one powers. When I turn the key the other way the blue light depowers and the yellow stays on. Nothing happens at the passenger or trunk locks. Are either suppose to? The "new" unit was plugged in again and got so hot I couldn't touch it. Then the old unit I had doesn't do anything. If the relay works to the pump from the drivers door then maybe I bought a bad used unit? Does that sound right? I can't think of anything else it could be.
It sounds like your electrical system is working. The pump has two modes: vac and push.

Would you be able to take a picture of your unbroken connector so I can see which color wires go where on the pump? I think mine works and if I could get it connected, I could help you diagnose. Or at least verify the wiring is correct.
__________________
1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:30 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatont9999 View Post
It sounds like your electrical system is working. The pump has two modes: vac and push.

Would you be able to take a picture of your unbroken connector so I can see which color wires go where on the pump? I think mine works and if I could get it connected, I could help you diagnose. Or at least verify the wiring is correct.
I hope this helps...if looking at this picture the terminal to the right is blue...left is yellow... and the bottom one is brown
Attached Thumbnails
1983 300SD door lock question-pump.jpg  

__________________
2022 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
1990 Mercedes 420SEL
1950 Packard 8

Previous German cars-
2001 Mercedes SL500
1983 Mercedes 300SD
2011 BMW 328i (manual)
2008 BMW 535xi (manual)
2006 BMW M3 (manual)
1980 Mercedes 300TD
2006 BMW 750i
1996 Mercedes E300D
1994 BMW 740i
2006 BMW 330xi (manual)
1999 E300DT Smoke silver/black 253k
2012 BMW 535i Xdrive M-Sport
1984 300TD-T 304k
1988 Mercedes 560SEL (parts car)
2010 BMW 550i xdrive
2017 Audi A4 Presitge
1979 300SD 313k
2003 E500 189k
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