Smartcar ? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #16 10-15-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

What those tests show, is that a big heavy car will come off better in a head on collision with a small car. That would have been something we could have guessed. Many years ago, the large corporation I worked for insisted we only rent full size cars when travelling (for safety reasons).

The smart actually comes off quite well in real world collisions. They essentially have an integral racing car type cage that protects the passengers. I know of a couple of cases here in Ontario where the car performed well in a crash. In one , driver had to swerve to avoid a collision, ran up on some concrete barriers that flipped the car - it rolled about 3 times and ended up on the now deflated wheels. Car was a complete write off, but driver was able to open door and get out!

These are mainly city cars and are unlikely to be involved in high speed head-ons with large cars. I think that is how the manufacturers responded to those tests. Many other tests have been done previously including those that MB have to do for all their cars before being approved in Germany.

We are happy with our car. It does close to 60mpg (US) on diesel. I don't think the newer gas smarts are attarctive in that they only do about 42mpg and use premium gas. Not very good for a compromise car. But nevertheless owners love them.

Our Car plus some engine pics

Hi Graham, does it get nearly sixty mpg on all city driving? If it does, I want one.

Graham · #17 10-15-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Hi Graham, does it get nearly sixty mpg on all city driving? If it does, I want one.

On city driving, mpg are of course less. It depends a lot on how you drive the car. Some get a lot better than 60mpg on highway. Some of the owners seem to get about 4-4.5 L/100km (52-58 mpg) all round consumption.

These cars are not sold any longer in Canada and never have been officially in USA. But there are some in USA. The diesels are available in Europe. There is also an Electric version available.

By the way, I was recently in Toronto. They have a scheme using teh newer gas smarts called Car2Go. You sign up for this then just go to one of their locations - cars are sitting there with keys in ignition ready to go. You scan through front windshield to open doors. Great for city dwellers who only occasionally need a car.

Zulfiqar · #18 10-15-2012, 10:44 AM

They are pretty neat cars except one bit - the manual autoselect transmission. It takes its sweet time to shift into the next gear.

Toyota also has caught up with this with their IQ thing, but IMO it looks like a bit porky

StaggerLee · #19 10-15-2012, 10:51 AM

I have several adjectives to describe a "smart" car. None positive.

barry12345 · #20 10-15-2012, 11:14 AM

We have quite a few running around in my area of eastern Canada. To me they fell into the area of a novelty type car. For getting around a larger city or town perhaps okay.

I was never quite certain of why mercedes marketed this particular car in north america. This thread was also the first I knew that they were now out of production. Or at least no longer sold here.

Even though I had noticed the much higher miles per gallon rating of several 2012 gas cars. I have not heard the real world milage they are delivering from owners experience.

Graham · #21 10-15-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

They are pretty neat cars except one bit - the manual autoselect transmission. It takes its sweet time to shift into the next gear.

In Auto, it is a bit clunky through the fist few gears but after that is is smooth enough.

It actually starts up in Manual - you have to select Auto if you want it by pushing a button. It is a manual transmission, but with automatic clutch.

In manual you change when ever you want. Some have paddle shifters on steering just like an F1 car

Zacharias · #22 10-15-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

This thread was also the first I knew that they were now out of production. Or at least no longer sold here.

Still in production and still sold in Canada and most of the world.

The diesel model was discontinued in Canada.

In fact there is a new development for 2013:
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/991531/-smart-canada-to-launch-lowest-priced-zero-local-emission-electric-vehicle-in-canada

Graham · #23 10-15-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

Even though I had noticed the much higher miles per gallon rating of several 2012 gas cars. I have not heard the real world milage they are delivering from owners experience.

For real world mileages, the site linked below is useful. Many of the smart car owners use it as do owners of many other makes:

MPG and Cost Calculator and Tracker - Spritmonitor.de

Here is a typical smart diesel entry:

Details: Smart - Fortwo - cdi pulse cabrio (Canada) - Spritmonitor.de

For an overall useful car with good mileage, the VW TDIs take a lot of beating.

97 SL320 · #24 10-15-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

I have several adjectives to describe a "smart" car. None positive.

These cars have a specific purpose, city and suburban driving. Easy to park, good on fuel. Long distance interstate probably isn't the best choice for this car.

The concept of a very small car is nothing new Crosley, American Bantam/ Austin 7, Renault 2 CV, Fiat 500 , original Mini... . Hey wait a minute, how does the Smart stack up in dimensions compared to the original Mini? The Smart has to be way safer than a Mini considering advances in engineering.

Also consider that cars in Europe have traditionally been small. Pick up a copy of a British classic car mag and look for road tests of American cars. The 65 Mustang is considered a large car where in the US is a compact.

Some in the US don't now how good they have it.

charmalu · #25 10-15-2012, 10:10 PM

Top gear in England did a crash test on the Smart car.

smart car safety crash test - YouTube

Charlie

bigblockchev · #26 10-15-2012, 11:20 PM

From what I see the typical Smart lasts about half as long as most other cars , in the 150-200K range. They do get decent mileage but a VW TDI is almost as economical. lasts twice as long and costs less to buy, and you can take your friends with you plus no dealer only service. For what you get the Smart should be priced similarly to the Nano. Cute , fun, crappy transmission no matter what anybody says, and yes I have driven one. Cheers Dan

Zacharias · #27 10-16-2012, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblockchev

a VW TDI is almost as economical. lasts twice as long and costs less to buy,

Last time I checked, a Golf Clean Diesel Comfortline TDi list price starts at $25,425, about $10k more than a Smart4Two ($14,400).

Graham · #28 10-16-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblockchev

From what I see the typical Smart lasts about half as long as most other cars , in the 150-200K range. They do get decent mileage but a VW TDI is almost as economical. lasts twice as long and costs less to buy, and you can take your friends with you plus no dealer only service. For what you get the Smart should be priced similarly to the Nano. Cute , fun, crappy transmission no matter what anybody says, and yes I have driven one. Cheers Dan

Would be interested to know where you got your information on a typical smart's longevity.

These cars are at most just 7 years old. They have not had time to reach anywhere near the mileages you mention. Few would have got to 100k km (62k miles) in 7 years. There are some that are in the 200k km range, but they are the exception - generally owners with long daily commutes (for which the smart is ideal)

Your stats are dubious and as already pointed out, your costs figures for golf vs smart re simply wrong.

Seems some people have preconceived ideas about these cars and post their opinions regardless of knowing very little about the car. Whatever turns your crank.

Most who own them love them. They are not for everyone, but neither are the other mini subcompact cars in their niche like Fiat 500, Scion IQ, Spark. Of these, the smart is undoubtedly the best quality - after all, it is a Mercedes

Graham · #29 10-16-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Top gear in England did a crash test on the Smart car.

smart car safety crash test - YouTube

Charlie

There is no shortage of crash test reports on various cars. But even moreso on the mini subcompacts because of their small size.

This is one by ADAC which seems to be an AAA or CAA "equivalent", but perhaps with a greater mandate. Unfurtunately, the test data is in German.

Quote:

ADAC has just completed a test of four small cars to see whether they can provide significant protection in collisions with larger vehicles.

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-im-einsatz/motorwelt/Kompatibilitaets_Crashtest.aspx?ComponentId=146000&SourcePageId=6729

Only the smart was judged to achieve an adequate level of protection to its occupants.

Daimler Media Services Press Release:

Stuttgart – When a small car collides with a larger one, the smaller vehicle draws the short straw. This is confirmed by the latest ADAC crash test. With one exception: in this David-and-Goliath clash the smart fortwo was the only small car able to prevent life-threatening injuries to the driver from severe trauma to the chest.

The standard EuroNCAP crash test simulates a frontal collision with a vehicle of the same weight. In contrast, for the first time the ADAC had four smaller models crash into a barrier vehicle equivalent to a lower-end mid-sized car. Further, in this first compatibility crash test the unequally matched parties to the accident collided with an offset of 50 percent. This is because, according to the ADAC, in an accident it is usually vehicles of different weights that collide, usually with a degree of lateral offset.

The horrifying outcome of the crash test is that life-threatening injuries in the chest region are commonplace in smaller vehicles. Only the smart fortwo protected its driver from such injuries – despite being the smallest and lightest vehicle in the test.

According to the ADAC, the reasons for the alarming test results lie partly
in the fact that the short crumple zone of smaller vehicles cannot absorb sufficient energy and the forces unleashed during an accident are often not conducted to the corresponding energy-absorbing components.

The smart fortwo owes its good crash test result to an innovative construction based on examinations of actual accident scenarios conducted by Mercedes-Benz Cars as opposed to focusing solely on the requirements of EU and American laws. Collisions with other vehicles in different constellations were therefore also taken into account during the development phase of the

smart fortwo. Because the constructional crash-safety provisions and restraint systems of all vehicles of Mercedes-Benz Cars satisfy such strict, internal standards that in part go way beyond the statutory requirements, they have also proved themselves in everyday practice. The same goes for the smart fortwo.

The safety concept of the smart fortwo is as follows:
■
The tridion safety cell protects its occupants like the hard shell around a nut. Its structure is additionally reinforced with high-strength and ultra-high-strength steel at strategically important points (more than 50 percent).

■
The tridion safety cell’s longitudinal and transverse members activate the crumple zone of the other vehicle involved in the accident and distribute the impact energy evenly over the car’s body.

■
And in case of a collision, the wheels also take on the function of crumple zones. When this happens, the front wheels are supported by the side members.

■
The rear-mounted engine enables a larger crumple zone at the front and acts as a shock-absorbing unit that absorbs the impact energy in a rebound.

■
Thanks to the sandwich-type construction of the tridion safety cell, the passengers are usually somewhat above the direct danger zone in the event of a side impact. Further, in the case of a side impact, the other vehicle almost always hits an axle that can absorb impact energy due to the relatively short wheelbase.

■
All interior trims have been optimised to prevent injuries to occupants. And the soft foam-backed lower instrument panel (knee pad) offers protection for the passengers' knees and lower legs.

■
The door structure is reinforced by high-strength sheet metal at
key points.

■
Other standard safety features in the smart fortwo are ESP with ABS and brake assist (BAS), wide track width, seat belts with belt tensioner and belt-force limiter, safety seats with integral seat belts, airbags.

However, it is not only the smart fortwo driver who benefits: due to its low weight it has little impact on the other vehicle involved in the accident and causes a minimum of damage.

The result of the latest ADAC crash test was summed up by the popular German newspaper “Bild”: “Only the smart is truly smart.”

More and more buyers agree with this opinion. More than 1.4 million smart fortwos have been delivered to customers since the first model was launched in 1998. 101,996 smart fortwos were handed over to customers worldwide in 2011 – 4.6 percent more than in the previous year. What they like about this trendsetter of individual urban mobility is above all its high fun factor, its high ecological standards and the compact dimensions of the two-seater that is peerless in terms of how little road and parking space it takes up. However, its sophisticated safety strategy is also persuasive, as the latest ADAC crash test underlines.

clacker · #30 10-16-2012, 09:12 PM

I have many diesels, many years but first to answer the original post. The glow plugs are right behind the plastic intake, you must remove a bunch of wiring harnesses and fragile plastic stuff to get to the glow plugs. Have a compression test adapter for the glow plugs ready and test compression at the same time. Beware many Mercedes dealers refuse to change the glowplugs on higher mile motors due to carbon buildup. Proceed with caution, the carbon is on the inside below the threads so no amount of spray lube or penetrent will help. It is coming out now that a lot of them develop compression issues, mostly valve related. The engine is very quiet from inside the cabin and few owners hear the valve lifters ticking away or notice once they fail completely and drive on, then destroying valves/seats/camshaft/head and so on. They also have problems with the oil pump drive chain that is turning up on alot of them, the gear for the oil pump looses its teeth over time. It is not known yet if oil related issues or metal issues (hardness/manufacturing). I suspect oil changes were stretched and poorly done by servicing mechanic as the ones I have seen apart are FILTHY inside the chain case, huge chunks of carbon and crap everywhere not tiny particles. They are the first diesels I have seen apart that are dirty inside...
They last just as long as most other cars, few other cars exceed 200k nowadays with some exceptions but with makers like Hyundai and Kia taking over that will not change anytime soon, 4 year cars are rusted out around here with Korean metal. The smart does not have rust issues yet...

Now on the fuel economy, I get 3L/100kms steady since the third tank of fuel since I bought it new in 2007 (almost 90mpg imperial or 75+US gallon). I only summer drive, pleasure use no daily grind commute and seldom an interstate just rural roads. It doesn't change if I do go into the city, it does change if you venture out on the interstate. They are great slow cars, exceptional infact. They are also terrible fast cars...the shifting is so slow and abrupt (I only have manual mode, no auto mode is was an option) you have to lift off the pedal and anticipate every shift, the fuel economy drops real fast as soon as you approach 65mph, it is great up to 55mph. After that matters well drive a VW tdi it is a wash at those speeds. The smart is very comfortable and refreshing on long drives (8 hours+), if it is not too windy, the driving position and seats are very well done and the car hugs the road just right.
I also have owned many VW tdi's, one automatic for 12 years and 300k miles so I can compare them, the smart is completely different car and attracts completely different owners. People who shop for a VW tdi, they want a diesel not a VW, and tend to be very cheap but usually somewhat knowledgable. Smart owners ended up with a diesel not knowing what they really bought, they wanted the lifestyle/image and eco aspects (they are several infact beyond the fuel economy) but know nothing about cars, this is changing as the cars change hands now.
Now on cost, YOU CANNOT BUY A TDI for the money a smart cost when they were new, you could not even buy a tdi period when we bought our smart (2007) our smart cost $20k new tax in, a pure (base) cabrio, a coupe was $3k less. TDI's ave always started at $24k in Canada plus taxes and options etc. They have much higher resale value too in Canada, the smart has really nose dived in value were the tdis are always overpriced used, even absurd unless they are scrap metal with 400k on them. 2006 smarts are $5-8k here, tdis are $6-16k for the same year. Our 2000 Jetta tdi was nearly $32k with options, they are indeed expensive cars vs the smart but way more equiped.

My biggest thing with them however, why does it matter how a car performs in crash testing? It is simulated, not the real thing. Why would anyone buy something thinking they are going to crash? Do you plan your air travel that way, take jobs that have no chance of injury, I prefer to live my life.
The car is so light and nimble there is no reason to crash it, just go around or avoid it. They handle much better then anyone could ever possible imagine, it turns immediately and stops real quick. Your also very aware of what is going on in them, there is a sense of actually driving as they had no power steering, lots of wind buffeting, you hear cars around you in the cabrio at least it is a very pure driving experience. This must be a very foreign concept to anyone who owns a minivan or fullsize pick up...
There are also lots of Mercedes specialists taking them on now as the dealer is flushing them out now that the warranties are all up, they hate them with a passion I have not found one dealer tech that actually wants to take them on, only indie shops and some are very busy because of this hate.