PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)
-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   98mph. 1985 300D, (dirty plugged filters + previous owner lack of maintenance) (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/329061-98mph-1985-300d-dirty-plugged-filters-previous-owner-lack-maintenance.html)

Silber Adler 11-04-2012 06:08 PM

98mph. 1985 300D, (dirty plugged filters + previous owner lack of maintenance)
 
Normally I drive pretty frugal but today on the interstate on a flat road I opened it up. Just wanted to see what it would do.

98mph at 4200 rpm.The previous owner had mentioned that he never replaced the injectors in the 7 years that he owned. I m betting that the injectors are factory new. Probably carboned up with cones blocked and out of spec on pop pressure.

Does any forum member rebuild or exchange injectors?

.

t walgamuth 11-04-2012 06:11 PM

I believe Greazzer does.

Skippy 11-04-2012 06:13 PM

Something is a little off. You should be getting about 10 mph more on top end. In addition to injectors it's a good idea to check your boost under load to see if it's in spec, and check the accelerator linkage to make sure it's getting to the max fuel position when you floor it.

w123love 11-04-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3042668)
I believe Greazzer does.

+1 On the Greazzer action. He’s the man.

wildhorsemfg 11-04-2012 08:24 PM

i have stuff to rebuild injectors also .
i put monarch tips in the last ones i did .

you can look at the top part of the injector and its pretty easy to tell if they have ever been taken apart .

Phillytwotank 11-04-2012 09:50 PM

+2 for greazzer

gastropodus 11-05-2012 12:50 AM

Also, C Sean Watts does a great job on injectors. I have purchased rebuilt injectors from him with Monark tips for both of my vehicles, and they are great.

Kurt

Silber Adler 11-05-2012 11:42 AM

Thanks to those who responded. It runs now and doesn't leak a drop of diesel. I want to be sure that it is this condition once I change the injectors.

whunter 11-05-2012 01:10 PM

Call me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3042664)
Normally I drive pretty frugal but today on the interstate on a flat road I opened it up. Just wanted to see what it would do.

98mph at 4200 rpm.The previous owner had mentioned that he never replaced the injectors in the 7 years that he owned. I m betting that the injectors are factory new. Probably carboned up with cones blocked and out of spec on pop pressure.

Does any forum member rebuild or exchange injectors?

I doubt it is the injectors.
Many other issues are more likely.
Your car should top out between 108 - 120 MPH, depending on many variables.


.

Silber Adler 11-05-2012 01:22 PM

Hi,
Can you give me an idea? air or fuel filters? the pre filter looks clear. The PO admitted that he never changed the injectors, before that it was owned by one other guy.

I have a new set of filters on order from you guys and am going change them first. The air filter in it is quite dark.

I have taken the snorkel off the turbo, it turns but doesn't truly spin to the touch.
Thanks
It starts, doesn't smoke. Seems to get about 30 mpg. I figure that with the injectors being over 7 years old, maybe 27 years old, they could well be part of the problem. Not that I need a car that goes that fast but just wanting the most efficiency as possible.
Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter (Post 3043154)
I doubt it is the injectors.
Many other issues are more likely.
Your car should top out between 108 - 120 MPH, depending on many variables.


.


Silber Adler 11-05-2012 01:54 PM

I should add that my fuel comes from my bulk tank. It is 20% bio diesel, I get it from the local fuel supplier who supplies a lot of commercial accounts.

Doktor Bert 11-05-2012 07:41 PM

Use the force....

haromaster87 11-05-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillytwotank (Post 3042821)
+2 for greazzer

+3 for greazzer. Just bought a set of injectors from him and they were like new. Great guy to deal with as well!

pawoSD 11-05-2012 10:43 PM

Biodiesel cuts the power output a bit, at least that is what I experienced on B20, not a lot, but it certainly does a bit.

whunter 11-06-2012 12:48 AM

Answer #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3043159)
Hi,
Can you give me an idea? air or fuel filters? the pre filter looks clear. The PO admitted that he never changed the injectors, before that it was owned by one other guy.

I have a new set of filters on order from you guys and am going change them first. The air filter in it is quite dark.

I have taken the snorkel off the turbo, it turns but doesn't truly spin to the touch.
Thanks
It starts, doesn't smoke. Seems to get about 30 mpg. I figure that with the injectors being over 7 years old, maybe 27 years old, they could well be part of the problem. Not that I need a car that goes that fast but just wanting the most efficiency as possible.

OK, some possible issues.

Biodiesel has a lower BTU per gallon compared to DIESEL.
You can spike your tank with 4oz - 16oz of 2 stroke oil for more power.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkAv-HFaLqpK_5wKCln6DODkfw_DkjBHVYZXm0nUtEw/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CJXuhs0I



physics of turbo question
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/31462-physics-turbo-question.html#post792013

Exhaust leak between engine and Turbo
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/176625-exhaust-leak-between-engine-turbo-om617.html

87 300SDL exhaust flex coupling- where to buy?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/140926-87-300sdl-exhaust-flex-coupling-where-buy.html

Turbo Cartridge Replacement
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/135489-turbo-cartridge-replacement.html

Turbo Rebuild
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/17299-turbo-rebuild.html

Rebuilding Turbo
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/111519-rebuilding-turbo.html

Need help: Garrett turbo rebuild on OM617 1982 300SD
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/167490-need-help-garrett-turbo-rebuild-om617-1982-300sd.html

Adjusting the Turbo Wastegate
Tweaking the Mercedes 617 Turbo Diesel

What causes low boost readings ?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/276173-what-causes-low-boost-readings.html

Turbocharger Wastegate Adjustment:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/114337-turbocharger-wastegate-adjustment.html

The Garrett/AiResearch turbo is harder but not too complicated; it's just a pain to get to the adjustment. There's a good series of pictures here:
Garrett Turbo Wastegate Adjustment - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

Turbo boost guage advice needed
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/62672-turbo-boost-guage-advice-needed.html#post384697


.

whunter 11-06-2012 12:48 AM

Answer #2
 
Diesel owners need to know fuel data
Diesel owners need to know fuel data - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Warning ALL Diesel Owners
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/309367-warning-all-diesel-owners.html#post2841158

Performing a Fuel Purge on a Mercedes Turbodiesel
Episode 2: Performing a Fuel Purge on a Mercedes Turbodiesel - YouTube



What is this valve and why is it dripping diesel?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/317902-what-valve-why-dripping-diesel.html

Fuel tank vent pictures + location
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2878700-post39.html

What happens when a tank vent gets clogged.
What happens when a tank vent gets clogged. - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Imploded fuel tank - so sad!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/314457-imploded-fuel-tank-so-sad.html

Why do I have vacuum in my diesel tank.....................?
Why do I have vacuum in my diesel tank.....................? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum



MB diesel filtration, how it works.
MB diesel filtration, how it works. - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

fuel filter change
fuel filter change - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Diesel filters, no tank strainers please.
Diesel filters, no tank strainers please. - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Primary filter melted by biodiesel?
Primary filter melted by biodiesel? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

I'm baffled and at wit's end!?!?!?!?!
I'm baffled and at wit's end!?!?!?!?! - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Algae/Fungus fixation...
Algae/Fungus fixation... - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Biobor, what is it, why do I need it???
Biobor, what is it, why do I need it??? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Filters, Fungus, Biocide, etc.
Filters, Fungus, Biocide, etc. - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Algae Clogged Filter Pic StarTron WORKS !
Algae Clogged Filter Pic StarTron WORKS ! - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Braided fuel lines weep. 1984 300TD turbo
Braided fuel lines weep. 1984 300TD turbo - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

300SD Fuel Filter Replacement Instructions
300SD Fuel Filter Replacement Instructions - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

240D fuel tank removal and cleaning
Good for any W123 sedan.
240D fuel tank removal and cleaning - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Changing the Fuel Tank Strainer on a Mercedes Diesel
Episode 1: Changing the Fuel Tank Strainer on a Mercedes Diesel - YouTube

Check out this fuel pickup screen
Check out this fuel pickup screen - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

W123 Fuel Tank Screen Replacement
W123 Fuel Tank Screen Replacement - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum



Lift Pump taken apart
fuel pressure - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

whunter 11-06-2012 12:49 AM

Answer #3
 
Fuel feed pressure, supplying the delivery valves is critical at high RPM, it can drastically reduce top speed.

Fuel injection pump starvation with a good lift pump
Fuel injection pump starvation with a good lift pump - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Fuel pressure relief valve adjustment
Fuel pressure relief valve adjustment - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

lift pump test
1979 300td -- Can anybody walk me through a lift pump test? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

fuel pressure
fuel pressure - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Here's my payback! Diesel Primer Pump Replacement
Here's my payback! Diesel Primer Pump Replacement - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum



Injectors and Glow Plugs for Dummies
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/311514-glow-plugs-bad-how-tell.html#post2898436

Inline diesel Injection Pumps
FYI: Inline diesel Injection Pumps - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Fuel injection pump diagrams???
Fuel injection pump diagrams??? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

great internal injection pump pictures
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/300531-injection-pump-sluggish.html#post2738138


Italian Tune up
Italian Tune-up links thread - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum


Diesel Injection Pump TIMING thread
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/320485-diesel-injection-pump-timing-thread.html



ALDA issue threads
ALDA issue threads - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Injector + Heat shield + Nozzle, Prechamber + Collar and Nailing. LINK THREAD
Injector + Heat shield + Nozzle, Prechamber + Collar, and Nailing. LINK THREAD - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum




Ip rack return spring r&r
Ip rack return spring r&r - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Diesel Timing Chain Link Thread
Diesel Timing Chain Thread - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum



The rack damper bolt was superseded due to a weak spring failing.
If it does not have the update, it needs it.

so, what does that rack damper bolt (617) actually do?
so, what does that rack damper bolt (617) actually do? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Part# rack damper pin for 1985 300SD
Part# rack damper pin for 1985 300SD - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Adjusting the Rack Damper Bolt
Adjusting the Rack Damper Bolt

Replacing Rack dampener pin
Replacing Rack dampener pin - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum


Good information to know.

Run away diesel, why does it happen?
Run away diesel, why does it happen? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Home Made Special Tools, This is where members can share how they made special tools
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/239902-home-made-special-tools-where-members-can-share-how-they-made-special-tools.html

DIY Adjust the base idle OM615, 616, 617
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305016-diy-adjust-base-idle-om615-616-617-a.html

.

whunter 11-06-2012 12:49 AM

Answer #4
 
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/142411-brake.html
You would be shocked at how often I find:
* Rear caliper inboard pistons fail to return = drag.
* Brake hose internal damage.
* Brake pads seized in the caliper frame = drag or no response.
* Marginal or bad wheel bearing, (mostly front).
* Wrong size tires, (cheap under size).
* Bad wheel alignment.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/142411-brake.html

.

Silber Adler 11-06-2012 07:15 AM

Thanks whunter That is a lot of material to digest. I am starting with the basics of getting the vehicle maintained and working toward other repairs. I get maybe one day every week or two to work on it in my heated shop.

I have been poking around asking about a boost gauge installation, boost gauge installation.

Have seen bits and pieces of the factory workshop manual pop up here. I followed a link to it and went to disc 2 and only to find the material missing in the folders. I am reading about 3-4 hours for every hour of actual maintenance.

This is my third turbo vehicle and second turbo diesel. My 1.6 IDI TD VW has a lot more low to mid range acceleration at present so I know my Merc needs something done to it. This helps.

Silber Adler 11-06-2012 10:23 AM

The car rolls very well in neutral although it slows down pretty quick in gear. I have had the rear wheels off the ground to check out the sway bar links and the wheels turn pretty normally.

whunter 11-06-2012 10:59 AM

FYI
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3043796)
The car rolls very well in neutral although it slows down pretty quick in gear. I have had the rear wheels off the ground to check out the sway bar links and the wheels turn pretty normally.

Feel free to call me with questions.

.

eatont9999 11-06-2012 11:57 AM

For more information about rebuilding injectors, see my signature.

Silber Adler 11-06-2012 03:51 PM

thanks whunter and eatont

Alastair 11-06-2012 05:20 PM

I would give it a full service, to include Valve-Clearances and checking/setting injection-timing.
At the same time assess the wear/stretch of the timing-chain.

I VERY much doubt the injectors will be 'holding you back' Diesel owners seem overly 'obsessed' by injectors.....:rolleyes:

Ive found that the 617 'likes' a couple of degrees More advance--say, 2 to 3 degrees more, ie-- instead of say 24 deg, I go 26-27 degrees--especially running blends of methyl-esters...

I had 110 mph out of an old, very rotten 300D n/a that had 150K on the clock, but had the above done....:eek:

Doktor Bert 11-07-2012 12:55 PM

Anybody have the drag coefficient of a W116??? I am wondering if 140 is possible with the 2.47:1 swap......I can get 120-125 out of it right now with the 3.07:1 axle @ 5000 rpm.

With the 215/70R14's and 2.47:1 axle, not accounting for converter slippage or other variables, 140 mph would come in at 4500 rpm...

Silber Adler 11-08-2012 10:28 PM

I put in a new air filter before a road trip. Seemed to run quieter and have better part throttle response but no better on top. The old filter was a mess.
http://veloliner.com/mb/mercairfilter.JPG
Just had to try it, zoom zoom!

cho 11-09-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3045933)
I put in a new air filter before a road trip. Seemed to run quieter and have better part throttle response but no better on top. The old filter was a mess.

Just had to try it, zoom zoom!

and now...fuel filters and please please check linkage!

cheers
ChO


.

Silber Adler 11-09-2012 07:17 PM

I got the fuel filters in.
The Pre filter was not as pristine as I once thought. Here it isI compared it directly to a new one.
http://veloliner.com/mb/benzillafuelprefilter.JPG

Also noticed that linkage would not open all the way like many said. Was 8-10 mm shy of the stop screw. Also has new oils in the engine and transmission.

I think it is peppier.

Still want to do the valve adjustment. A friend has an extra set of wrenches and an extra valve cover gasket.

Silber Adler 11-09-2012 07:27 PM

Oh I also did an "injector cleaning by using straight diesel fuel injection cleaner in a pop bottle. After I was finished there was a fair amount of debris and discoloration in the bottle.

Silber Adler 11-09-2012 09:51 PM

Oh once I changed the spin on filter it wouldn't start. I figured out how to run the primer pump (unscrew the white knob then work it in and out) by hand and with my wife cranking it started within a few seconds.

eatont9999 11-10-2012 01:57 AM

I second slightly advanced timing especially for anyone running thicker fuel like WMO, WMO, WATF, etc. It may not be an issue for you, Adler, but generally timing becomes retarded after timing chain stretch and that can affect performance.

whunter 11-10-2012 01:58 AM

Fantastic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3046702)
Oh once I changed the spin on filter it wouldn't start. I figured out how to run the primer pump (unscrew the white knob then work it in and out) by hand and with my wife cranking it started within a few seconds.

You are discovering that it is frequently several common issues.
Most are due to lack of maintenance.

Once you get caught up, the maintenance goes to a normal schedule.

.

Silber Adler 11-10-2012 09:44 AM

I am going to look at the injector timing once I figure out some of this other stuff. The valve adjustment should be pretty straight forward. I was going to make my wrenches but a friend said that he had two sets of factory ones and an extra valve cover gasket. So that is on hold for a bit. It was really helpful to

I have a boost gauge on order from fleabay. Will see what boost I have. If it is low then will address that.

This is a great group.

Silber Adler 11-19-2012 12:42 PM

I have gotten the valves adjusted. My boost is running at 9psi.

My car has a pretty newish stock type system on it. It barely makes any noise. I was looking at the exhaust system when I was changing the transmission fluid. It comes out of the corrugated section on the down pipe and it is spliced right before the curve and considerably constricted down where it was swedged probably a half inch or more to fit into the head pipe then squished down where it makes the curve. I am guessing that it loses 30% of the cross sectional area within 3-4".

Here is a quote from a different thread which drifted from a post about turbo whine.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/330201-turbo-whine-w123.html#post3052668
Quote:

Originally Posted by fordheaded (Post 3052668)
Some say there's no way it can give you more power, but I feel there was a definite increase. Noise was fun at first but at 70 my eyes started to vibrate. The pipe is 2.5 inches to the rear axle then 3 inches with a downturn at the end. I had to make a resonator to calm it down. Took the same 2.5" pipe and drilled 3/8" holes in it, then covered with 4" pipe fully welded. The pipe is industrial sanitary pipe from the scrap yard, real thin and easy to tig weld. Cheap because it's light. Also 304 S.S.!! Anyway, I installed the resonator where the first stock one would be and much better. Still a little drone but bearable. A very distinctive sound though at 75mph, almost like a giant cicada! Cool. I'll try to post some pics from my phone. Stock exhaust-400-500.$$; scrapyard SS pipe, $35.00.

Fordheaded, has a good idea. I am not interested in a straight pipe but thinking that maybe sending everything back to the muffler through at least a stock head pipe diameter.

barry12345 11-19-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktor Bert (Post 3044625)
Anybody have the drag coefficient of a W116??? I am wondering if 140 is possible with the 2.47:1 swap......I can get 120-125 out of it right now with the 3.07:1 axle @ 5000 rpm.

With the 215/70R14's and 2.47:1 axle, not accounting for converter slippage or other variables, 140 mph would come in at 4500 rpm...

I feel you may not have enough power available to get you up there. Could as easily be wrong though.

Doktor Bert 11-20-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345 (Post 3052900)
I feel you may not have enough power available to get you up there. Could as easily be wrong though.

I have been thinking the same thing, though I can hit 120 easily enough

Silber Adler 11-20-2012 04:46 PM

I am sure you have seen calculators for this.horse power calculator

and the drag coefficient here:drag coefficient Mercedes-Benz_W126
I'll let you plug in the numbers. May take 175-180 hp.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktor Bert (Post 3053420)
I have been thinking the same thing, though I can hit 120 easily enough


fordheaded 11-20-2012 05:33 PM

If you think the exhaust is your limiting factor, disconnect it at the bellhousing and give it another shot. I don't know if anyone suggested linkage slop but see if your getting full thrust on your IP vs accelerator peddle. You gotta break 100mph, make us proud!!!!

Silber Adler 11-21-2012 06:15 PM

102+
 
YEAH
I was on the road today and traffic was light. I got on a stretch where I could see a couple miles and wound it up...

I did 102 and was still climbing. It seemed like once it it 100 it went up to 102 pretty quickly. There is more. It does have 201 k miles.

The car was loaded and was shaking a bit. Empty with smoother tires and drivetrain. I have no doubts that there would be more.

Thanks fordheaded for pushing me to do it on a day with lots of patrols.

fordheaded 11-22-2012 12:20 AM

You're absolutely welcome!!!

whunter 01-26-2014 08:58 PM

Update please
 
Curious how things are going on this car ?


.

Silber Adler 01-26-2014 09:41 PM

Hi Hunter,
It's running great, maintenance has settled down. I put a new voltage regulator a couple of months ago.

Been having a bad winter, the tank runs and looks good. I had my eye on a similar wagon. The guy was not interested in selling but then it disappeared, oh well.

whunter 01-26-2014 11:10 PM

Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3277495)
Hi Hunter,
It's running great, maintenance has settled down. I put a new voltage regulator a couple of months ago.

Been having a bad winter, the tank runs and looks good. I had my eye on a similar wagon. The guy was not interested in selling but then it disappeared, oh well.

Any further issues from the fuel system ?

.

Silber Adler 01-27-2014 08:50 AM

Ah, no been doing fine for the past year running-wise.

I do appreciate you asking. I have more free time now so may find myself with new projects.

whunter 01-27-2014 04:08 PM

FYI
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber Adler (Post 3277580)
Ah, no been doing fine for the past year running-wise.

I do appreciate you asking. I have more free time now so may find myself with new projects.

Call if I can help with the car issues.
PM sent.

Roy

.

Silber Adler 01-27-2014 05:34 PM

Yeah how quickly we forget....

Crappy running engine. Doors that have to be slammed. Poor cold weather performance. Heaters that don't regulate. Antenna that won't go up. Loose ball joints.

Got the pm, thanks Roy.
Dave


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website