98mph. 1985 300D, (dirty plugged filters + previous owner lack of maintenance)
Normally I drive pretty frugal but today on the interstate on a flat road I opened it up. Just wanted to see what it would do.
98mph at 4200 rpm.The previous owner had mentioned that he never replaced the injectors in the 7 years that he owned. I m betting that the injectors are factory new. Probably carboned up with cones blocked and out of spec on pop pressure. Does any forum member rebuild or exchange injectors? . |
I believe Greazzer does.
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Something is a little off. You should be getting about 10 mph more on top end. In addition to injectors it's a good idea to check your boost under load to see if it's in spec, and check the accelerator linkage to make sure it's getting to the max fuel position when you floor it.
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i have stuff to rebuild injectors also .
i put monarch tips in the last ones i did . you can look at the top part of the injector and its pretty easy to tell if they have ever been taken apart . |
+2 for greazzer
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Also, C Sean Watts does a great job on injectors. I have purchased rebuilt injectors from him with Monark tips for both of my vehicles, and they are great.
Kurt |
Thanks to those who responded. It runs now and doesn't leak a drop of diesel. I want to be sure that it is this condition once I change the injectors.
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Call me
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Many other issues are more likely. Your car should top out between 108 - 120 MPH, depending on many variables. . |
Hi,
Can you give me an idea? air or fuel filters? the pre filter looks clear. The PO admitted that he never changed the injectors, before that it was owned by one other guy. I have a new set of filters on order from you guys and am going change them first. The air filter in it is quite dark. I have taken the snorkel off the turbo, it turns but doesn't truly spin to the touch. Thanks It starts, doesn't smoke. Seems to get about 30 mpg. I figure that with the injectors being over 7 years old, maybe 27 years old, they could well be part of the problem. Not that I need a car that goes that fast but just wanting the most efficiency as possible. Quote:
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I should add that my fuel comes from my bulk tank. It is 20% bio diesel, I get it from the local fuel supplier who supplies a lot of commercial accounts.
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Use the force....
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Biodiesel cuts the power output a bit, at least that is what I experienced on B20, not a lot, but it certainly does a bit.
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Answer #1
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Biodiesel has a lower BTU per gallon compared to DIESEL. You can spike your tank with 4oz - 16oz of 2 stroke oil for more power. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkAv-HFaLqpK_5wKCln6DODkfw_DkjBHVYZXm0nUtEw/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CJXuhs0I physics of turbo question http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/31462-physics-turbo-question.html#post792013 Exhaust leak between engine and Turbo http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/176625-exhaust-leak-between-engine-turbo-om617.html 87 300SDL exhaust flex coupling- where to buy? http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/140926-87-300sdl-exhaust-flex-coupling-where-buy.html Turbo Cartridge Replacement http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/135489-turbo-cartridge-replacement.html Turbo Rebuild http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/17299-turbo-rebuild.html Rebuilding Turbo http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/111519-rebuilding-turbo.html Need help: Garrett turbo rebuild on OM617 1982 300SD http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/167490-need-help-garrett-turbo-rebuild-om617-1982-300sd.html Adjusting the Turbo Wastegate Tweaking the Mercedes 617 Turbo Diesel What causes low boost readings ? http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/276173-what-causes-low-boost-readings.html Turbocharger Wastegate Adjustment: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/114337-turbocharger-wastegate-adjustment.html The Garrett/AiResearch turbo is harder but not too complicated; it's just a pain to get to the adjustment. There's a good series of pictures here: Garrett Turbo Wastegate Adjustment - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum Turbo boost guage advice needed http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/62672-turbo-boost-guage-advice-needed.html#post384697 . |
Answer #3
Fuel feed pressure, supplying the delivery valves is critical at high RPM, it can drastically reduce top speed.
Fuel injection pump starvation with a good lift pump Fuel injection pump starvation with a good lift pump - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Fuel pressure relief valve adjustment Fuel pressure relief valve adjustment - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum lift pump test 1979 300td -- Can anybody walk me through a lift pump test? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum fuel pressure fuel pressure - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Here's my payback! Diesel Primer Pump Replacement Here's my payback! Diesel Primer Pump Replacement - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Injectors and Glow Plugs for Dummies http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/311514-glow-plugs-bad-how-tell.html#post2898436 Inline diesel Injection Pumps FYI: Inline diesel Injection Pumps - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Fuel injection pump diagrams??? Fuel injection pump diagrams??? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum great internal injection pump pictures http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/300531-injection-pump-sluggish.html#post2738138 Italian Tune up Italian Tune-up links thread - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Diesel Injection Pump TIMING thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/320485-diesel-injection-pump-timing-thread.html ALDA issue threads ALDA issue threads - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Injector + Heat shield + Nozzle, Prechamber + Collar and Nailing. LINK THREAD Injector + Heat shield + Nozzle, Prechamber + Collar, and Nailing. LINK THREAD - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Ip rack return spring r&r Ip rack return spring r&r - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Diesel Timing Chain Link Thread Diesel Timing Chain Thread - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum The rack damper bolt was superseded due to a weak spring failing. If it does not have the update, it needs it. so, what does that rack damper bolt (617) actually do? so, what does that rack damper bolt (617) actually do? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Part# rack damper pin for 1985 300SD Part# rack damper pin for 1985 300SD - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Adjusting the Rack Damper Bolt Adjusting the Rack Damper Bolt Replacing Rack dampener pin Replacing Rack dampener pin - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Good information to know. Run away diesel, why does it happen? Run away diesel, why does it happen? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum Home Made Special Tools, This is where members can share how they made special tools http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/239902-home-made-special-tools-where-members-can-share-how-they-made-special-tools.html DIY Adjust the base idle OM615, 616, 617 http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305016-diy-adjust-base-idle-om615-616-617-a.html . |
Answer #4
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/142411-brake.html
You would be shocked at how often I find: * Rear caliper inboard pistons fail to return = drag. * Brake hose internal damage. * Brake pads seized in the caliper frame = drag or no response. * Marginal or bad wheel bearing, (mostly front). * Wrong size tires, (cheap under size). * Bad wheel alignment. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diy-links-parts-category/142411-brake.html . |
Thanks whunter That is a lot of material to digest. I am starting with the basics of getting the vehicle maintained and working toward other repairs. I get maybe one day every week or two to work on it in my heated shop.
I have been poking around asking about a boost gauge installation, boost gauge installation. Have seen bits and pieces of the factory workshop manual pop up here. I followed a link to it and went to disc 2 and only to find the material missing in the folders. I am reading about 3-4 hours for every hour of actual maintenance. This is my third turbo vehicle and second turbo diesel. My 1.6 IDI TD VW has a lot more low to mid range acceleration at present so I know my Merc needs something done to it. This helps. |
The car rolls very well in neutral although it slows down pretty quick in gear. I have had the rear wheels off the ground to check out the sway bar links and the wheels turn pretty normally.
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For more information about rebuilding injectors, see my signature.
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thanks whunter and eatont
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I would give it a full service, to include Valve-Clearances and checking/setting injection-timing.
At the same time assess the wear/stretch of the timing-chain. I VERY much doubt the injectors will be 'holding you back' Diesel owners seem overly 'obsessed' by injectors.....:rolleyes: Ive found that the 617 'likes' a couple of degrees More advance--say, 2 to 3 degrees more, ie-- instead of say 24 deg, I go 26-27 degrees--especially running blends of methyl-esters... I had 110 mph out of an old, very rotten 300D n/a that had 150K on the clock, but had the above done....:eek: |
Anybody have the drag coefficient of a W116??? I am wondering if 140 is possible with the 2.47:1 swap......I can get 120-125 out of it right now with the 3.07:1 axle @ 5000 rpm.
With the 215/70R14's and 2.47:1 axle, not accounting for converter slippage or other variables, 140 mph would come in at 4500 rpm... |
I put in a new air filter before a road trip. Seemed to run quieter and have better part throttle response but no better on top. The old filter was a mess.
http://veloliner.com/mb/mercairfilter.JPG Just had to try it, zoom zoom! |
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cheers ChO . |
I got the fuel filters in.
The Pre filter was not as pristine as I once thought. Here it isI compared it directly to a new one. http://veloliner.com/mb/benzillafuelprefilter.JPG Also noticed that linkage would not open all the way like many said. Was 8-10 mm shy of the stop screw. Also has new oils in the engine and transmission. I think it is peppier. Still want to do the valve adjustment. A friend has an extra set of wrenches and an extra valve cover gasket. |
Oh I also did an "injector cleaning by using straight diesel fuel injection cleaner in a pop bottle. After I was finished there was a fair amount of debris and discoloration in the bottle.
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Oh once I changed the spin on filter it wouldn't start. I figured out how to run the primer pump (unscrew the white knob then work it in and out) by hand and with my wife cranking it started within a few seconds.
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I second slightly advanced timing especially for anyone running thicker fuel like WMO, WMO, WATF, etc. It may not be an issue for you, Adler, but generally timing becomes retarded after timing chain stretch and that can affect performance.
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Fantastic
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Most are due to lack of maintenance. Once you get caught up, the maintenance goes to a normal schedule. . |
I am going to look at the injector timing once I figure out some of this other stuff. The valve adjustment should be pretty straight forward. I was going to make my wrenches but a friend said that he had two sets of factory ones and an extra valve cover gasket. So that is on hold for a bit. It was really helpful to
I have a boost gauge on order from fleabay. Will see what boost I have. If it is low then will address that. This is a great group. |
I have gotten the valves adjusted. My boost is running at 9psi.
My car has a pretty newish stock type system on it. It barely makes any noise. I was looking at the exhaust system when I was changing the transmission fluid. It comes out of the corrugated section on the down pipe and it is spliced right before the curve and considerably constricted down where it was swedged probably a half inch or more to fit into the head pipe then squished down where it makes the curve. I am guessing that it loses 30% of the cross sectional area within 3-4". Here is a quote from a different thread which drifted from a post about turbo whine. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/330201-turbo-whine-w123.html#post3052668 Quote:
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I am sure you have seen calculators for this.horse power calculator
and the drag coefficient here:drag coefficient Mercedes-Benz_W126 I'll let you plug in the numbers. May take 175-180 hp. Quote:
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If you think the exhaust is your limiting factor, disconnect it at the bellhousing and give it another shot. I don't know if anyone suggested linkage slop but see if your getting full thrust on your IP vs accelerator peddle. You gotta break 100mph, make us proud!!!!
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102+
YEAH
I was on the road today and traffic was light. I got on a stretch where I could see a couple miles and wound it up... I did 102 and was still climbing. It seemed like once it it 100 it went up to 102 pretty quickly. There is more. It does have 201 k miles. The car was loaded and was shaking a bit. Empty with smoother tires and drivetrain. I have no doubts that there would be more. Thanks fordheaded for pushing me to do it on a day with lots of patrols. |
You're absolutely welcome!!!
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Update please
Curious how things are going on this car ?
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Hi Hunter,
It's running great, maintenance has settled down. I put a new voltage regulator a couple of months ago. Been having a bad winter, the tank runs and looks good. I had my eye on a similar wagon. The guy was not interested in selling but then it disappeared, oh well. |
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Ah, no been doing fine for the past year running-wise.
I do appreciate you asking. I have more free time now so may find myself with new projects. |
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PM sent. Roy . |
Yeah how quickly we forget....
Crappy running engine. Doors that have to be slammed. Poor cold weather performance. Heaters that don't regulate. Antenna that won't go up. Loose ball joints. Got the pm, thanks Roy. Dave |
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