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  #1  
Old 11-10-2012, 01:58 PM
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Replace wagon with Sprinter?

One of these days I'll have to consider replacing my 85TD. Wagons with low mileage and good condition are increasingly rare. What do people think are the plusses and minuses of replacing a 123 wagon with a small passenger version of the Sprinter? Fuel economy would be roughly similar I think. Something like this maybe:

2006 Dodge / Mercedes Benz Sprinter

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  #2  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:12 PM
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I think they are a great alternative - I really like driving sprinters. They are as quick if not quicker than a W123 300TDT and seem to sip fuel even with my heavy right foot.

The downsides that I have noticed so far are

1) Not quite as comfortable as a real car - the van versions do seem to have restricted seat positioning due to metal cabin wall behind seats - but this might not be a problem for the buses.

2) Interior quality is very work man like and not particularly great quality

3) Noise - way noisier inside than a W123

4) Heater needs longer to warm up the buses - as a passenger sitting in the back of one - you can get quite cold (I've never driven a minibus version (only Ford Transit minibus) but I've sat in the back of many a sprinter)

5) Build quality - sure it is a Mercedes - but they aren't built like the cars. They seem to rust quicker than a similar aged car. Paint quality is often terrible - I reckon I could do better with a brush.

6) Harder to clean / wash than a normal sized car


However I do like them!

Buyer beware for these "camper" conversions - real approved campers are very much more expensive than normal sprinters => just adding a bit of 2" X 1" and calling it a bed doesn't mean the price should be double!!!!
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:24 PM
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I'm a landlord so a standard sedan is a poor option for me. A stove, washer or fridge will fit in my 123 wagon. They'll also fit in a Sprinter and when it comes time to replace the wagon I'd like to replace it with another diesel.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:47 PM
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If the build quality is already suspect over in Europe, then it must be doubly so here in the states, since they're not even built by Mercedes over here. I would seriously consider upgrading from my Vanagon to that SWB low-roof model linked in the first post. I've had my eye on that exact model for some time.
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:48 PM
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My neighbor, who is a technician at the local MB dealer, has been the resident "expert" on these Sprinter van at his dealer ever since they started working on them.

His personal car is a Toyota Tundra pickup, and he is going to replace his truck with a Sprinter van. He loves them, swears they are great vans, and talks about all the configurations available: as cargo vans, as passenger vans with multiple rows of seats, with or without middle captains chairs, as van conversions, or as full-blown motor homes with kitchens and bathrooms.

I'm sure that not all versions come with the metal cabin wall behind the front seats.

My electrician traded in his Chevy van for one, and is getting twice the fuel economy.

It's also stunning how much fits in the back of these vans, and it's a nice treat to be able to stand up in the back, and I'm 6'1".
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2012, 03:01 PM
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I don't have any experience with the W123 wagon, but I do have much experience with the W903 Sprinter.
The good: Ours is a 2003 and has 153K miles on it and drives like new. I'm sure you will test drive one before you buy but they are very easy to drive and handle very well, so much so that sometimes you forget how long it is. It does need extra room to turn so you don't hit the back tires on a curb or something but the turning radius is very good, and I have witnessed the previous generation Mustang have more difficulty doing a U-turn than the Sprinter. The Sprinter probably has similar acceleration to a wagon but I really wouldn't know. It is sufficient. Top speed is electronically limited to 86mph and it does fine getting up there, just it doesn't like the wind but an attentive driver can correct that easily. If you go for the passenger version, you can remove the seats pretty easily and use the van for transporting cargo. The attachment points for the seats are good to tie thing down to. The ride is comfortable and the seats are decently comfortable. The high top version allows you to stand up and walk around in the van unless you are much over 6 feet. The panels are pretty easy to remove and allow for full customization of the vehicle. The thing has averaged around 24mpg.

The bad: The high top version of van (not sure about low top) cannot go through normal car washes, some drive-thrus, can't fit into just any section on a ferry (I have a story about that), can't fit into most parking decks, can't fit into most garages, etc. The thing is terrible to have to wash because of it's size and will be better if you have a crew of people to help (takes at least 2 people). Also, it being a commercial vehicle, the interior is nothing to write home about.
The Sprinter is not free of mechanical and electrical issues (much like any other car). Here is an article that talks about many of these issues: Sprinter RV: Buying a Used Sprinter – Top Ten Problems to Look Out For The locking system does not work if you do not keep all of the electrical contacts on the doors (back doors and the side door, clean with alcohol and if necessary, file down the contacts). We have also had the EGR valve malfunction at around 135k (an issue stated in the article, supposedly the replacement lasts much longer), the black death and fuel pump at around 115K (another issue in the article, expensive to fix but its a one time thing caused by the fuel injector not being installed properly at the factory), and the alternator went at around 125K. These repairs are somewhat expensive but overall the van has been very reliable, much more so than our previous van, a Plymouth Voyager, and has left us stranded far few times. We were left stranded for the alternator and the black death, both times this was in Gainsville, FL. The black death was for over a week because it happened right after that volcano went off in Iceland, shutting down all air traffic in Europe for a few weeks so we couldn't get parts from Mercedes, and there were none nearby that were any good (the only sprinter sitting in a salvage yard nearby was Michael Vick's Sprinter that was impounded when he went to jail and it had been ruined by the elements) and ended up having to have a rebuilt one shipped in from another state. EGR problem severely decreased performance and caused a ton of smoke but my dad was still able to drive it to our mechanic. I am not sure how much of this work you could do yourself, probably a lot less than what you could do in the wagon.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I'm a landlord so a standard sedan is a poor option for me. A stove, washer or fridge will fit in my 123 wagon. They'll also fit in a Sprinter and when it comes time to replace the wagon I'd like to replace it with another diesel.
The sprinter is a beautiful vehicle. But, knowing you, you're not about to shell out over $15K for a decent example.

I faced the same situation about three years ago when my 1989 Dodge B-250 was near the end of its economic life (due to ongoing necessary repairs and marginal emissions).

I decided on a 2002 or 2003 Dodge B-2500 van.

Yes, I already know they are a POS.......not worth crap.......yada, yada, yada.

But, I found a 2002 (two years ago) with a legitimate 35K on the clock that was an Au Bon Pain delivery van. Very clean with a couple of issues that were relatively easy to solve. DB on e-bay wanted $4K which he was not going to get. After visiting the van and checking it out a bit, I offered him $3300 CASH and not a penny more. Actually, he did rip me off for another $80. for a temporary registration to get the vehicle out of NJ, but that was it.

I spent about $1K on various odds and ends including a set of steel shelves and some electrical switches and a blower motor. It's turned out to be a fine vehicle for what I need. The fact that it gets 14mpg on a good day is somewhat irrelevant because I only drive it about 3K per year.

So, yes, a Sprinter is fantastic. But, I'm laughing all the way to the bank with the POS Dodge.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
The sprinter is a beautiful vehicle. But, knowing you, you're not about to shell out over $15K for a decent example.

.
You're right about that The problem is that the vehicle has to double as my daily driver. If it was just my landlord truck, the Dodge would work. Not sure I'd want to drive it everyday. Maybe I'll just have to search harder for a nice 123TD.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
You're right about that The problem is that the vehicle has to double as my daily driver. If it was just my landlord truck, the Dodge would work. Not sure I'd want to drive it everyday. Maybe I'll just have to search harder for a nice 123TD.
No, the fuel economy of the Dodge would kill you. The seat comfort would kill you. The lack of sufficient heat required for the volume of air would kill you.

Other than that, it's a great vehicle.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
No, the fuel economy of the Dodge would kill you. The seat comfort would kill you. The lack of sufficient heat required for the volume of air would kill you.

Other than that, it's a great vehicle.
Yea, with a Sprinter with the optional AC unit in the back, it cools the van very well but you don't have a heater in the back so it can get cold back there. Sitting in the front, the standard (I believe it is standard) AC and heater work quite nicely.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2012, 11:49 PM
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I remember checking out a sprinter delivery version back in 2006. The driver showed me the inside and I was really impressed. I bought a 2 year old econoline for about 10-12,000 less and have been generally happy. I average about 17 in the Econo and drive it 6-7,000 a year.About once or twice a month I need to haul something and it is perfect.

What brought me into the MB fold was the fact that I could get a fairly good running example for less than 3000. Something that the Sprinter is not going to be at for several more years. I was looking for a wagon but got the sedan and am happy with it.

I still look at them with some envy but the bucks are not there now.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:57 AM
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My Experiences: I have a 2011 Sprinter passenger version that I purchased with 9300 miles on it I like it except wife hates the ride: wish I knew a source to get softer springs or Air Suspension. Get about 18-19 MPG (soft foot). Needs 3 Gallon Mobil 1 to change oil, plus cost of AD-blue urea fills. I plan to convert it to a RV when I retire in 5-6 years.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alipak View Post
My Experiences: I have a 2011 Sprinter passenger version that I purchased with 9300 miles on it I like it except wife hates the ride: wish I knew a source to get softer springs or Air Suspension. Get about 18-19 MPG (soft foot). Needs 3 Gallon Mobil 1 to change oil, plus cost of AD-blue urea fills. I plan to convert it to a RV when I retire in 5-6 years.
I heard it has stiffer springs so it is less prone to roll over
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:33 PM
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The coffee truck that services my shop is an older sprinter diesel. He loves it! Holds up well to the constant stop and go as well as extended idling.

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