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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:23 AM
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Fished out the bolt

I opened up side oil sump and saw the bolt was lodged between the timing and the oil pump chain. No wonder the engine would not turn. Spent all afternoon try to fish it out and no luck. Went out for dinner and tried to forget the stupid mistake. Had a good time and then decide to give it one more shot. I was planning for the the worst. Use 2 long drivers and managed to push it out in 10 minutes. It dropped down to the oil pan bottom, what a relief. Now I am a happy camper again.

Having a golf game tomorrow and back on this bloody job on Tuesday.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:15 AM
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I was thinking he was on a 617 engine.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
I opened up side oil sump and saw the bolt was lodged between the timing and the oil pump chain. No wonder the engine would not turn. Spent all afternoon try to fish it out and no luck. Went out for dinner and tried to forget the stupid mistake. Had a good time and then decide to give it one more shot. I was planning for the the worst. Use 2 long drivers and managed to push it out in 10 minutes. It dropped down to the oil pan bottom, what a relief. Now I am a happy camper again.

Having a golf game tomorrow and back on this bloody job on Tuesday.
We can race to the finish then! I have often found that simply walking away and coming back with a fresh mind does wonders. Usually involves a different position or different set of tools.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:49 AM
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Those two screws, on the inside of the casting, are the most dangerous part of the job. There is absolutely no margin for error in installing them without allowing them to fall.

It is always strongly recommended to stuff the top of the abyss with rags so the inevitable cannot happen. The rags will also prevent a Woodruff key or the washer that lurks behind the cam sprocket from heading to China, as well.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Those two screws, on the inside of the casting, are the most dangerous part of the job. There is absolutely no margin for error in installing them without allowing them to fall.

It is always strongly recommended to stuff the top of the abyss with rags so the inevitable cannot happen. The rags will also prevent a Woodruff key or the washer that lurks behind the cam sprocket from heading to China, as well.
If only I knew. It is not the end of the World but it was very frustrating for a newbie.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
If only I knew. It is not the end of the World but it was very frustrating for a newbie.
Consider yourself extremely fortunate.

If the front timing case cover required removal, you'd be in a real heap of trouble.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:47 PM
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If it makes you feel any better I just realized the same bolts are 50mm on the #22 head, 30mm on my old one
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:00 PM
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What a mess. What next?

Need some ideas here. I installed the head and torqued everything down. Before I put everything together, I decided to do a cold compression test and the result is NO good.

cyl 1 - 300
cyl 2 - less than 50.
cyl 3 - 350
cyl 4 - 200
cyl 5 - 300
cyl 6 - 100.

The engine was running but missing at idle. I should have done a compression test first before I pulled the head. I did not so I do not know what the reading was like. I did compression test on this engine 1 year ago and the result was good. I have a few questions:

1) How can cyl 2 be so low? The head is bad or the block? Put 2 spoonful of oil thru the inlet valve and the compression goes up a little bit to about 80.
2) Anything I can check before I pull the head again?
3) I have another #14 head. It is from the car where the oil pump chain snapped and buggered the engine. It is a good head as the car was running. Shall I try to install this head?
4) Can I reuse the Head Gasket? It is torqued down but never used so to speak.

Any help is appreciated.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Last edited by ah-kay; 11-21-2012 at 12:50 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:39 PM
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use new oem head bolts. throw the old bolts out. aftermarket bolts may stretch. follow MB tightening instructions exactly. I would have had the head planned and checked. Dropping a bolt in the engine not a good thing. Wish you luck.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
Need some ideas here. I installed the head and torqued everything down. Before I put everything together, I decided to do a cold compression test and the result is NO good.

cyl 1 - 300
cyl 2 - less than 50.
cyl 3 - 350
cyl 4 - 200
cyl 5 - 300
cyl 6 - 100.

The engine was running but missing at idle. I should have done a compression test first before I pulled the head. I did not so I do not know what the reading was like. I did compression test on this engine 1 year ago and the result was good. I have a few questions:

1) How can cyl 2 be so low? The head is bad or the block? Put 2 spoonful of oil thru the inlet valve and the compression goes up a little bit to about 80.
2) Anything I can check before I pull the head again?
3) I have another #14 head. It is from the car where the oil pump chain snapped and buggered the engine. It is a good head as the car was running. Shall I try to install this head?
4) Can I reuse the Head Gasket? It is torqued down but never used so to speak.

Any help is appreciated.
You cant reuse a head gasket that's been torqued upon. It sounds as though those scratches you mentioned you could "feel" in the number 2 cylinder may be the culprit. Especially since MMO made the numbers jump a bit. Since the MMO made a difference, that rules out anything valvetrain related and points to bore seal. I'm assuming this is a 3.0L. I know in the rod bending 3.5L blocks people have installed new liners. Not sure about the feasibility of this with a 3.0L, but I would imagine it can be done. More work though... Sorry about the outcome thus far. We are all pulling for you though!!
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2012, 02:26 PM
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A bit of progress, so what next.

Removed the head again managed to push the #2 piston out. I did it by removing the side sump and the #2 piston rod bolts are right there. May be it is my lucky day.

I have never seen a diesel piston so I am not sure what it should be like after 335K miles. 2 upper rings seem to be OK. It got a bit a carbon in the grooves so they do not move freely. Half of the ring is free so they spring up against the cylinder wall OK.

The oil ring ( 3rd one ) is broken. about 1/4 of it is missing. I saw some bit when I pushed the piston out. The cylinder has 2 scratches from top to bottom. So what next. I am a tinker and I do my car for fun in between work. I do not need to have it fix quickly so what would you guys suggest? Hone the cylinder? Any suggestions is welcome.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-24-2012, 03:33 PM
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Posts: 5,924
Flip your head upside down and put some light fluid in around the valve recesses on that low compression cylinder.

Sounds like your compression rings where still looking reasonable. No piston damage either? any cross hatching remaining on the cylinder walls?

Those scratches must be pretty bad to drop your compresion test to only 50 pounds.
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2012, 03:36 PM
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You will come out money ahead purchasing a good, used engine in my opinion.
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  #29  
Old 11-24-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
The oil ring ( 3rd one ) is broken. about 1/4 of it is missing. I saw some bit when I pushed the piston out. The cylinder has 2 scratches from top to bottom. So what next. I am a tinker and I do my car for fun in between work. I do not need to have it fix quickly so what would you guys suggest? Hone the cylinder? Any suggestions is welcome.
First of all, don't be too upset about the scratches. They cannot cause a loss in compression when the engine is running. The space is simply too small.

So, your problem with that cylinder is likely to be either the rings or the valves. Since you've got the piston out, might as well replace the compression rings and the oil ring.

The engine has 335K........probably on the original valves. Therefore, your search for a problem on the piston might be misguided. While the head is off, see if you can determine the condition of the valves and the seats on #2. Restoring them might be the solution.

Whatever you do, ignore all the comments regarding the "right way" to do the job. You've got an engine that is getting up there in time and it makes no sense to do it "the right way" unless you've got about $5K laying around burning a hole in your pocket. That's what it will take if you end up chasing a "while you are in there" scenario.

You have to address this engine as cheap as you possibly can........or call it terminal and replace it.
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2012, 04:10 PM
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You've got an engine that is getting up there in time and it makes no sense to do it "the right way" unless you've got about $5K laying around burning a hole in your pocket. That's what it will take if you end up chasing a "while you are in there" scenario.
x2

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