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  #1  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:07 AM
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Solve an arguement for me...Please

Like the title says……
I got into a disagreement with my father-in-law over off-road/red diesel. He uses it is his farm equipment and also some diesel heaters. Anyway, I say that all red/off-road diesel is ULSD just like the on-road stuff, just has a red dye added to it. He says it is high sulfur diesel.
My argument is that they would have to have separate supply systems (piping, trucks, etc ) if this was true to ensure a truck that just carried high sulfur was not used to carry ULSD (cross-contamination of fuel) and so forth. Basically the cost and the logistics of keeping them separate would not be worth it and it is simply easier to make all diesel ULSD regardless if it is dyed or not.
Can anyone help solve this issue once and for all.

Thanks,

Glenn
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:21 AM
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To be absolutly sure call his fuel supplier. My guess is that it is just todays normal fuel though. Unless the distributors are required to add a package to the fuel when selling it for equipment use and I very much doubt even that. Other than the red dye that is.

Our local distributor picked up a fifteen K fine for not dying all his fuel sold as tax extempt fuel. High sulphur fuel production is a thing of the past I suspect basically for auto and lighter equipment.

Last edited by barry12345; 11-30-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:02 AM
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I expect that this would vary depending on state on locality. I would also expect that ini most places it's the very same stuff with dye added.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I would also expect that in most places it's the very same stuff with dye added.
Agreed.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:43 AM
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On a related topic: All the diesel I buy has a slight green tinge to it. However, I stopped for fuel in Nebraska a few weeks ago and got diesel that was completely clear. I wasn't paying attention until I went to fill up the last few gallons in the tank of my Fuso and noticed it was clear. Initially I thought I'd just filled it up with gasoline. What was going on there? I talked to the clerk at the station and she was clueless.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
All the diesel I buy has a slight green tinge to it.
It's color coordinated to match the hose nozzles. Except at BP stations, where all the nozzles are green.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
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You are right and your father in law is wrong. Here is why. All the major refiners in US have made the switch to ULSD to satisfy environmental requirements. They produce the bulk of the diesel in this country. Small independent refiners were given waivers to produce off-road fuels and for some time could only service the off-road markets. Unfortunately, the small independent refiners are going out of business due to cost of compliance on an ongoing list of additional environmental concerns; with them goes their production of high sulfur diesel. At this time, I bet they don't even comprise 1% of US production.
The majors market to both on and off road markets with ULSD for the simple reasons that transportation would be an issue and they do not want to invest in the process equipment to segregate these products within the refineries. Nowadays the red dye serves as an indicator as to whether road tax has or has not been paid.
In answer to the color question; the green tinge indicates parafinicity and the red tinge indicates aromaticity. The green parafinic stuff is good for diesel, gives it (all other factors being equal) a better property to ignite. The red aromatic stuff is just the opposite. Am kind of surprised you came across this as there is a color spec for sale of diesel, we used the color indicators in operations in the refinery.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:09 AM
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I can't speak for the Pacific Northwest, but in Nassau County, Long Island, all fuel, including HHO, in now ULS fuel. It should be a plus for retailers and homeowners, as it will not produce the ash that the 500 and 5000PPM fuels did. AFAIK, the original 5000PPM fuel has not been available for some time. There is still some 500 PPM fuel in the system for use in ships and locomotives. That will probably be gone by 2015 when new emission standards for locomotives take effect.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:39 AM
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That's right, it's all S15 (ULSD) fuel now. I think that went into full effect in 2011.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
It's color coordinated to match the hose nozzles. Except at BP stations, where all the nozzles are green.
actually, around here at least, BP has all green nozzles EXCEPT for diesel. the diesel pumps are black.
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vstech View Post
actually, around here at least, BP has all green nozzles EXCEPT for diesel. the diesel pumps are black.
"Some" or "all" really isn't the issue. The issue is that BP has chosen do do things backwards from the way most other fuel vendors do things. And it results in gasoline being accidently put into diesel tanks. (For the most part, nozzle size keeps diesel fuel out of gasoline tanks.)
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:18 PM
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It's D2 with dye in it. It will run just fine in your car but you could get in trouble if your tank is dipped by DOT. The government wants all the money it can get, so you have to pay road tax on all fuel used in automobiles on public roads. Even WVO and WMO are a grey area. It wouldn't stop me, though. I have never seen or heard of someone in a passenger vehicle getting dipped by DOT. Semis are a different story.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:04 PM
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You would have to talk to the fuel supplier. Last I knew, true "off road diesel" now has reduced sulfur content while home heating oil still has a higher sulfur content.

Off road diesels are getting hit pretty hard with increased emissions requirements and fuel is only part of it.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:12 PM
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I have never seen or heard of someone in a passenger vehicle getting dipped by DOT. Semis are a different story.
Any diesel parked at a horse show around here is likely to get dipped.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman View Post
Any diesel parked at a horse show around here is likely to get dipped.
That may be the case but personally, I have never met, read on the forums or heard first hand heard from someone who has been dipped. I know people who run red fuel for a while and never heard of them getting dipped. It may be more common at horse shows or agricultural events but that is likely due to stereotyping by DOT.
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