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  #16  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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I'll believe it when I see it. How many other times have other car companies made claims of diesels coming to the US market? And how many do we have?

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  #17  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:00 AM
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When is VW going to bring there Polo 1.2L 3cyl TDi (about the size of a Ford Fiesta) over here, that gets 75 mpg? They have been talking about it, or even the 1.6 4cyl TDi
VW has always been at the top of the MPG charts for their (small) Diesel engines, the only problem is that the MPG usually reflects the HP rating, but I guess thats how they do it.
1980 Rabit diesel 50 mpg.
Or how about the VW concept XL1 Diesel Hybrid 250 mpg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO JOKE, google it.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassparilla_kid View Post
Other companies have diesel cars they aren't allowed to import because they are too efficient, which means less money will be going into the pockets of big oil, American auto manufacturers, and the politicians. This is great, hopefully America will realise the government is the one preventing them from having a super efficient car when they start seeing these on the road
Are you being tonge in cheek or do you really believe this?

VW has been selling diesels in the US for 30 years except for a few breaks follow each new tighter emission requirement. While diesels do tend to get better MPG's, with a 20% premium on the cost of diesel vs RUG the fuel costs end up about equal. Check out the new car price of a VW with a TDI vs gasoline engine as there is a several thousand dollar premium paid for the diesel. You have a personal liking for a diesel as you pay a premium to own / operate a new one vs a gasoline powered car. This ends up making diesel cars it a niche market in the US.

With that said, I'd test drive one myself.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassparilla_kid View Post
Other companies have diesel cars they aren't allowed to import because they are too efficient, which means less money will be going into the pockets of big oil, American auto manufacturers, and the politicians. This is great, hopefully America will realise the government is the one preventing them from having a super efficient car when they start seeing these on the road
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Walkenvol View Post
Are you being tonge in cheek or do you really believe this?

VW has been selling diesels in the US for 30 years except for a few breaks follow each new tighter emission requirement. While diesels do tend to get better MPG's, with a 20% premium on the cost of diesel vs RUG the fuel costs end up about equal. Check out the new car price of a VW with a TDI vs gasoline engine as there is a several thousand dollar premium paid for the diesel. You have a personal liking for a diesel as you pay a premium to own / operate a new one vs a gasoline powered car. This ends up making diesel cars it a niche market in the US.

With that said, I'd test drive one myself.
The US market treats cars like kitchen blenders, all are thrown out within half a decade at max, couple that with really cheap gasoline prices (compared to the rest of the world) and that the efficient diesel options have very scarce "support" - it gets a back seat.

I dont think there are many general small garages or workshops that can even diagnose a diesel correctly while you can find many of such in many small towns in EU, Asia etc. I sometimes get the "your engine is dead - its making too much noise" then I tell them its a diesel engine, its supposed to rumble at idle.

To top this the customer applies apples to apples and sees that the gas car is cheaper but less efficient and the dealer is bending backwards to get it off the lot.
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkenvol View Post
Are you being tonge in cheek or do you really believe this?

VW has been selling diesels in the US for 30 years except for a few breaks follow each new tighter emission requirement. While diesels do tend to get better MPG's, with a 20% premium on the cost of diesel vs RUG the fuel costs end up about equal. Check out the new car price of a VW with a TDI vs gasoline engine as there is a several thousand dollar premium paid for the diesel. You have a personal liking for a diesel as you pay a premium to own / operate a new one vs a gasoline powered car. This ends up making diesel cars it a niche market in the US.

With that said, I'd test drive one myself.
I question that 20% premium. It's closer to 10%, which matches the extra BTU's your buying. Most of the option cost is returned at sale time, unless you were unfortunate enough to own one of Ford's last three diesel offerings.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Graplr View Post
I'll believe it when I see it. How many other times have other car companies made claims of diesels coming to the US market? And how many do we have?
I tend to agree, as much as I wish I didn't. I mentioned the Honda Accord diesel in a previous post... then tried googling "Honda Accord diesel North America" and got squat except auto commentators talking about having driven one overseas and/or asking when it would be here.

There aren't any conspiracies at work here, just simple corporate conservatism working against investing millions in certifying their diesel models for the NA market when there is no apparent demand. Car diesel tech is a big black unknown hole for most NA drivers, one rung up the ladder someone suggesting they drive a Yugo. Car companies rarely gamble unless they happen to have a particularly visionary CEO -- which is rare but does happen (the guy who runs Ford now seems to be one).

I think the bottom line is that the auto industry will respond with more diesels when consumers buy more VW diesels and/or start demanding to know why dealers of other makes haven't got them.

It would take one heck of a concerted grassroots campaign to get that kind of pressure mounted on the companies.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rscurtis View Post
I question that 20% premium. It's closer to 10%,
I commute in a 190D and the other family cars are gassers so I'm buying both these days. At my local pump this morning, RUG was $3.09 and diesel 3.79. My schooling is old, but $0.70 / $3.09 = 22.65%. In my Tennessee market this ratio does vary, but I don't remember ever seeing it at just 10% although the current 22% is on the higher end of the range.
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:05 PM
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I gave this explanation of why there are not more diesel cars in this country but no one seemed to understand what I was saying so I will try again and make it simple.

In this country, we have diesel trucks, tractors, trains, heavy equipment, etc.
In this country we have millions of gasoline cars.

If 50% or more of the cars were diesel, WHAT WOULD THEY DO WITH ALL THE GAS THAT IS NOT BEING USED BY THE CARS?

True, they can modify the production percent but it cost more. Big oil has it balanced just the way they want it and have no intention of letting it change.

Anyone understand?

Paul
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:01 PM
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Diesels hold their value better than same model gassers. My 03 Dodge truck with the cummins is still worth about 13 to 14000 compared to a gasser at maybe 7000. That is more than the extra I paid for the diesel when I bought it.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:23 PM
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Well as the kids say whatever. I expect no new diesels to appear in the north american market for quite some time yet. If they do not offer a really good mpg return they will not sell in enough numbers in my opinion.

It certainly is not helping their case with the recent improvements in some gas cars MPG.
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:54 PM
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Don't hold your breath

Does anyone remember this ad from 5 years ago? Commercial - Honda Diesel - YouTube

If I remember correctly, Honda was promising Diesel Accords in the U.S. by 2009.
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:23 PM
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My new Automobile Mag says NA will have a 2.0 TDi Golf next year.
Im guessing People put the pressure on VW after Audi offered the A3 TDi
I see a ton of little Audi TDi's on the road here in Portland and Im sure the people wanting to spend a little less wanted their Little TDi's also.
Chevy is coming out with the Cruze Diesel next year (re badged Vauxhall Astra), so maybe the auto manufacturers are starting see the trend and slowly responding.

Merc offers a diesel in the E class ML, and GL's and suppose to be offering up a diesel C class and GLK in the next year or two
BMW offers a diesel 3 series 5 series and X5
They are listening, they are just scared of NA and our "fly by night" buying habits and there taking it slow.

I think we will see American car companies putting out Diesel cars before we see Japan and Korea bringing them over.
Ford is huge in Europe so they have unlimited resource for Diesel tech. and now that most all of NA Ford cars are Global platform (Finally) I think we will start to see a shift
Starting with the Mazda 6 which isnt even a real Mazda it's a (re skinned) Ford Mondeo AKA New Ford Fusion, or the Ford Kuga AKA New Ford Escape, Both newly Global Platform designs that the Ford company has been making for years and years in Europe and they have been Hot sellers for years.

GM has Opel, Vauxhall and Holden to owe there new Global Design cars to, and at least the first two know there way around diesel engines pretty well.
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Last edited by davidlee; 12-04-2012 at 02:15 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmckechnie View Post
I gave this explanation of why there are not more diesel cars in this country but no one seemed to understand what I was saying so I will try again and make it simple.

In this country, we have diesel trucks, tractors, trains, heavy equipment, etc.
In this country we have millions of gasoline cars.

If 50% or more of the cars were diesel, WHAT WOULD THEY DO WITH ALL THE GAS THAT IS NOT BEING USED BY THE CARS?

True, they can modify the production percent but it cost more. Big oil has it balanced just the way they want it and have no intention of letting it change.

Anyone understand?

Paul
Are you being tonge in cheek or do you really believe this?

How many auto makers market vehicles in the US market? 15 or 20? The number changes regularly as makers come and go. These companies are all global and competing for their share of the market. Do you really think the CEO's of those corporations would pass on additional profits and market share if there was an automotive diesel market demand not being serviced? Do you think they care at all what impact it would have on the fuel suppliers? If so, what's the logic allowing hybrids and electric cars to enter the US market? What is big oil going to do with all that extra diesel if the large trucks accelerate the switch to CNG. Do you think the CEO's of the trucking companies will turn down the extra profits of cutting their fuel bills in half?
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Last edited by Walkenvol; 12-05-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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  #30  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlee View Post
My new Automobile Mag says NA will have a 2.0 TDi Golf next year.
Im guessing People put the pressure on VW after Audi offered the A3 TDi
I see a ton of little Audi TDi's on the road here in Portland and Im sure the people wanting to spend a little less wanted their Little TDi's also.
Chevy is coming out with the Cruze Diesel next year (re badged Vauxhall Astra), so maybe the auto manufacturers are starting see the trend and slowly responding.

Merc offers a diesel in the E class ML, and GL's and suppose to be offering up a diesel C class and GLK in the next year or two
BMW offers a diesel 3 series 5 series and X5
They are listening, they are just scared of NA and our "fly by night" buying habits and there taking it slow.

I think we will see American car companies putting out Diesel cars before we see Japan and Korea bringing them over.
Ford is huge in Europe so they have unlimited resource for Diesel tech. and now that most all of NA Ford cars are Global platform (Finally) I think we will start to see a shift
Starting with the Mazda 6 which isnt even a real Mazda it's a (re skinned) Ford Mondeo AKA New Ford Fusion, or the Ford Kuga AKA New Ford Escape, Both newly Global Platform designs that the Ford company has been making for years and years in Europe and they have been Hot sellers for years.

GM has Opel, Vauxhall and Holden to owe there new Global Design cars to, and at least the first two know there way around diesel engines pretty well.
Golf tdi has been in the states for some time now.

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