Questions about 87 300td possible purchase - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

maxb · #1 12-06-2012, 02:52 AM

It looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a 87 300td. There's still a bunch of steps to go through (I haven't even had a chance to drive it or open the hood), but I've spoken with the owner and I have some pictures (I've also been able to pass by the car and see the exterior, but no one was around to test drive, etc.). There are pics online here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/118247531136800822861/MercedesForSale?authkey=Gv1sRgCJORiJvc3ruBnQE#5813416430530190402

The first few pictures are of the 300td and the rest are the other sedans that they are selling.

They want something like 2300 for it...

Communicating with the owner has been tricky as she's selling it for someone else, so she doesn't have the full maintenance records. She claims that the body has 270k on it and the engine has 200k (the new(er) engine was put in recently).

There's obviously a bunch of questions to be answered, and I think I'll have the chance to actually speak with the owner or the person who has been responsible for the maintenance, but I was hoping to get any feedback from people here.

I've read the W124 Buyers Guide. I don't think the AC works, but I've never really wanted/needed ac anyhow and was thinking that removing it would increase mileage. I guess I wanted to ask whether or not the old #14 head would be something to avoid at all costs, or whether at this price it could be forgiven if no symptoms were present. Also, it seems like there's one decent rust spot on the right side rear panel. Should that be a flag to look more carefully through the rest of the body and frame for more rust?

I'm pretty woefully inexperienced w/ regards to car mechanics. I've owned a short diesel school bus for the last 3 years and converted it to run on vegetable oil, but I wouldn't say that I'm particularly knowledgeable w/ regards to cars. I'm definitely excited to learn, but I imagine that for the time being there are definitely some tasks that I would be incapable of doing myself (replacing a head I think would fall in this category...)

I've been looking for a 300td for a while now and it seems like around here its hard to find anything under 5-8k. Do you all think something like this is too good to be true?

vstech · #2 12-06-2012, 08:00 AM

Welcome to the forum.
new members are not allowed to post any links in their first few posts, that's why your thread did not appear at first.
all fixed now!
the 87TD is my favorite car, and I have 3 of them now... and I work on 3 others... so ask all the questions you like!
also, there is a thread by gsxr I think, with a purchase inspection list on the chassis.

vstech · #3 12-06-2012, 08:05 AM

the lowest priced 87TD I got was free with a trade of another car I got for free... so bargains are out there. I also found one needing repair for 250, and my pristine example was under 176K miles, and I got it for 2500.
if there is rust, look EVERYWHERE for more. you'll find it most likely.
that guide has plenty of places to look for rust, but be sure you open both rear storage compartments and look UP inside them. also, look to see if the rubber stoppers have been removed. that's a big sign of water getting in the car.

jay_bob · #4 12-06-2012, 08:57 AM

I've just been through the 300TD experience with vstech.

It was an adventure but it was worth it.

Be prepared to spend several thousand more to fix the inevitable deferred maintenance items that will come up. Between the purchase price and parts I am in about 5k not counting my time (or vstech's, he was invaluable).

AC not terribly difficult to fix, new compressors available for under 500, but check the controls first. There are several safeties that inhibit the compressor that may be keeping the compressor shut down. In the online FSM there is a troubleshooting procedure to check out the control system. Depending on what region of the country you are in, having ac is a safety item due to need to defog the windows.

Couple things I saw right off:
- paint looks rough
- LF wheel missing a lug nut, and LR wheel missing 3

, this could be trouble because MBs are backwards of most cars, the lug nut threads into the hub.
- back seat looks ok, but you are missing the speaker cover in the door (might be on the floor) and the head restraints are gone.
- what is under the sheep skins up front??
- cargo area looks ok, be sure to check under the floor thoroughly, I do not see cargo area seat belts, so this car did not come with the optional third seat.
- rusty trouble on right rear side window
- that dash looks like it has a plastic cap, check carefully at the edges, if so the original dash is probably shot.

Don't mean to rain on your parade but $2300 seems high based on the photos. And we haven't seen the engine yet...the fact that the seller posted no engine pics is a red flag to me.

My story at Buying a 1987 300TD

And here is my Picasa folder with pictures of my car:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102106351327485959886/87300TD?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPX6uMemvuK0zQE&feat=directlink

barry12345 · #5 12-06-2012, 10:45 AM

I think this is a case where you should take either someone with a lot of experience on these particular cars along with you. Or pay for a real overall inspection.

When things like lug nuts on wheels are missing it is not good. For example what else could be abnormal. Or even dangerous. Another person vending for the owner does not instill confidence in buying especially either. The chances of service records is also scarce to non existant.

So far this deal does not look superficially all that attractive. The only thing even slightly attractive is someone felt the car was worth another engine install. If that engine was any good is yet another issue. Or truly changed at all reciently . Car sellers can be notorious liars remember. This buggy sounds like a real high milage example or just has seen a lot of abuse.

pwogaman · #6 12-06-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

Don't mean to rain on your parade but $2300 seems high based on the photos. And we haven't seen the engine yet...the fact that the seller posted no engine pics is a red flag to me. [/URL]

Agreed. No rear head rests, no third row seats, etc . . .

Seems too highly priced.

Here's my story (so far): 1987 300TD W124 Wagon...DC Impound Auction...$450 Ends 07/18/2012

uberwgn · #7 12-06-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxb

I'm pretty woefully inexperienced w/ regards to car mechanics.

Is this just going to be a fun/hobby thing or are you going to attempt to use it on a daily basis

vstech · #8 12-06-2012, 11:47 AM

as far as the #14 head, it's a non issue IF MAINTENANCE IS FOLLOWED!
my current TD has over 225K on it, and it's all original. zero cooling issues and flawless motor stats. the fan clutch needs maintenance regularly, the radiator needs to be in great shape, as does the aux fan. if a/c is on, you need to be CERTAIN the engine does not overheat, aux fan mod to bring it in at a lower temp is wise.
also, the main reason for these engines blowing heads with #14 is the belt failing, and owners keep driving "until the next exit" the thin castings just do not handle overheating.

maxb · #9 12-06-2012, 01:31 PM

Thanks for all the responses. I guess I wasn't expecting as much feedback so quickly, but its great.

Being in the bay area, it seems like finding a decent wagon for a reasonable price is super rare. Of course, a reasonable price is only reasonable if it isn't accompanied by skyrocketing repair costs. I thought I was looking at the whole thing with a skeptical eye, but then I still missed things like the wheel lug nuts being missing (don't know how), so I'm glad you all are so on it.

The car probably won't be a daily driver (we're in the east bay and get to work, etc by bike mostly), but more for either picking up stuff that won't fit on the bikes or taking short(ish) trips out into the mountains, to the coast, etc. Having room in the back for gear or potentially enough room to sleep in in a pinch would be nice.

I think I posted here so that I could get my parade rained on a little bit and I'm glad you all pitched in. I'll probably still go drive it around (can't hurt to get a little experience--if its a nightmare I'll at least know some of the things to look for next), but if I'm at all seriously considering it I'll probably have to dish out to have it professionally looked over.

Thanks everyone!

warmseth · #10 12-07-2012, 01:34 AM

I bought my 300td for the fuel mileage as I drive a good distance to work on a daily basis. If you aren't driving it much and want it for the w124's legendary durability and build quality, I'd consider getting a gas wagon as they are quite common (at least down here in LA) and MUCH cheaper for a cleaner/newer car. $.02

pwogaman · #11 12-07-2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmseth

I bought my 300td for the fuel mileage as I drive a good distance to work on a daily basis. If you aren't driving it much and want it for the w124's legendary durability and build quality, I'd consider getting a gas wagon as they are quite common (at least down here in LA) and MUCH cheaper for a cleaner/newer car. $.02

Yeah, the mileage is much better. I've gotten exactly 28.22 mpg on my 300TD with the last two tanks. A far cry better than the 300TE 4matic with a 3.29:1 rear end.

vstech · #12 12-07-2012, 08:02 AM

now don't get TOO discouraged, the 87 TD is a rare car, and if the rust evident is the ONLY rust, it's not too bad if you get it taken care of. west coast cars are expensive, and sought after, so if that car is EASILY in your budget, then fine, try to reduce the car based on the things we've pointed out to you. keep in mind all the additional things the car will likely need soon to keep it a reliable vehicle, and look for them.
the fan and clutch are easy to spot. if it's new aluminum clutch, and an 11 blade plastic fan, you are in good shape. if it's a dirty clutch with a dirtier aluminum fan, then it's original and you need to IMMEDIATELY shell out $150 for replacement of that, if the vacuum pump has a smooth tin cover with no bolts holding it on, then you IMMEDIATELY need to replace that... another $450. if the belt is not BRAND NEW, it's gotta go, $22. if the belt tensioner and shock are not brand new... $150 plus some special tools around $50 look into the coolant system, it should be totally clean, but no signs of it JUST being changed. the plastic bottle should be crack free, and no signs of residue around it. the bottle should be completely free of any traces of oil stains on the inside. look carefully at the cap. oily gunk collects there if the head's been cracked or the gasket has begun to seep.
look at the SLS container. is it full of fluid? is the fluid clear? look at the rear shocks are they still covered by plastic bellows? are there any hydraulic fluid messes back there?

PLENTY of additional things to look for just keep asking!

jay_bob · #13 12-07-2012, 09:27 AM

Don't give up on this car quite yet, we just don't want you to get burned.

These are wonderful vehicles. The engineers who designed them were not constrained by corporate accountants trying to squeeze pennies. That is why they cost between 40 and 50k new in 1987.

If you decide to go back and look at the car, be sure to get some more pictures and post them up for us to see. Especially the dirty bits under the hood and below the car. Open up the side compartments in the rear and get photos of the inside of the compartment, particularly on the right side where the rust is peeking under the glass. Use a photo sharing site and upload them at full resolution so we can zoom in.

There are several highly experienced forum members in the bay area (I assume you meant SF), and it might be good for one of them to help you look the car over.

The power train on the 124s was seriously over engineered (except for the #14 head problem). If the car was properly cared for and has mileage in the 200s, it still has plenty of life left in that department.

The troubles often come from the other systems (suspension, brakes, engine auxiliaries) that are approaching the end of their service life. Fortunately many of these repairs are well within the realm of a competent DIY with a good set of tools.

maxb · #14 12-07-2012, 02:36 PM

Great!

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the help on not getting burned. I'm still planning on checking it out--haven't given up yet, but I'll definitely be giving it a close look over all the items you mentioned.

I'll post back as soon as I have more info.

TnBob · #15 12-07-2012, 06:03 PM

No one else has mentioned it yet...soooo

Make a detailed list in writing of all the deficiencies you find with a rough number to make right next to each item.

IMO.. $2300 is high. Id be much more interested at $1200 to 1500 and would be using the detailed list to get there.

It isnt the only MB out there for sale too. It never hurts to walk away.