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  #1  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:33 PM
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350 sd oil consumption

I have 1991 350 sd with 132000 miles.Bought it last summer and drove it for about 5000 miles.In that time oil used was RotellaT3 15w40.No oil consumption.For winter changed oil to Mobil 5w40 synthetic and immediately start using oil,probably 2 quarts over 1000 miles.Changed oil back to Rotella 15w40 and oil usage is less,probably half quoter over 800-900 hundreds miles.Doesn't smoke on start up or when driving if I step hard on no smoke at all.On driver side by "BLUE FLYING SAUCER" , right behind, I think it is called Switchover valve ,on the bottom of that valve is dripping small amount of oil(it start drip with synthetic oil).I check cross pipe from turbo to intake it is dry.EGR is blocked with aluminum plate.There is no oil dripping or liking from engine.On cold mornings engine start easy. Idles nice,also ride nice.Any ideas except ROD BENDER .Thank you for helping.
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Last edited by big d; 12-23-2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:56 AM
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Could be the oil feed passage to the head just in front of the number one cylinder. Might be breeched a little to the first cylinder as that is pretty common. I do not think you are burning enough oil yet to really easily find the source of your consumption yet. Not to worry though as it may increase .

That said anyone owning one of these 3.5 engines should locate a sound lower block of the 3.0 litre variety while they are still relatively available and store it. This aids in selling the car even if not needed by the new owner.

At some point those old blocks wil be amost history to find in my opinion. Or if the need comes your way it is usually harder to find something when there are time constraints at the same time. Ultimatly it just again usually costs you more. Now there still have to be damaged cars and clapped out ones to get a sound 603 3.0 engine from.

I do not know what I believe about those 3.5 engines. To me they appear structurally weak.This from everyones perspective is not argumentitive basically. That is in comparison to the 3.0 litre engine to a person of limited intelligence like myself is very obvious.

I mentally recorded the fact some time ago that apparently if it is true the same engine in europe does not self destruct. Being a slow thinker and indoctrinated with what has been suggested over the years side tracked me. It just occured to me that if the injection pumps are different between the 3.5s sold in europe and the ones for the north american market then it may not be the qualty of the fuel issue here either.

Actually since our fuel is poorer it should stress the engine less. This takes me directly back to the possibility of low fuel pressure in the base of the injection pump as another perhaps remote additive factor. Same as is now pretty obvious on the 616 four cylinder engines. First though a few things may have to be established. Is the failure really rare or non existant in europe? Is the injection pump different or the same? Is the cars injection pumps base fuel pressure remaining adaquate at speed? Thats if it is really a different version injection pump from those sold in europe.

I almost cannot believe that this area has been missed in the general discussions that have gone on about this engine. If the base fuel pressure is too low at speed the power strokes will not be equal. This causes additional loading stresses. Or unequal power strokes. These are not random in my opinion but would have a distinct profile. Or even if random could still be destructive. It could even answer the question of why some of the 3.5 litre engines fail and some go on to old age. Or fail again even with beefed up connecting rods.

The older 3 litre 603 block may be able to cope with the unequal power strokes as it is so much stronger. If I was going to continue driving a 3.5 litre it might be advisable to install a permanant fuel presssure gauge in the cabin. Mercedes has never officially stated the root cause of this type of failure with these engines. It could be as simple as indaquate fuel filter changes dropping the fuel pressure.

Still it has to be a given that the amount of the four cylinder 616 first rod bearing failures should have been well known and mercedes never issued any bulletin to tell service people to test that pressure to the best of my knowledge. If the mercedes technical section was over the top. Protection from liability issues may have dictated it. The 616 engines are tough so even with weak base fuel pressure where going to get past the warranty period with ease in my opinion.

I just picked up a new used toyota corolla car for the wife this week. Car sold new thirteen months ago and has 7,800 kilometers or sightly under 5,00 miles with the options my wife likes. The price was fair at 13,250 in Canada plus sales tax. Demands for certain options would be more appropiate I suspect by her. You would not want to come home without them.

Well christmas was close anyways so why not kill two birds with one stone? Otherwise I did not have a clue of what to get her and she had mentioned few times over the last six months she might like a newer car. Buying cars for her is a ritual anyways as she is quite capable of going out and finding a car and paying for it anytime she wants.

Other than she usually cannot get the prices I do I suspect she would. That dealership presented aout the hardest negotiation for a car I have ever experienced. Eight total interactive hours til it was nailed down over two days. They are well known crooks fairly locally. It was a one year lease return and they had it on consignment from a lease pool. Like brand new overall but as they had nothing in to it gave me some leverage.

That is after I proved to them or exposed them as chronic liars of some ability without saying a word about it. My phone call to the selling dealer with the salesman and sales manager present as I demanded seemed to deflate them. About half way through the negotiations got the information that it was not a trade in. But a one year lease so since they did not have the ownership yet it was also a consignment car from the leasing companies pool I suspected and they had nothing into it so far besides the oil change if true.

The first oil change was due in two hundred more miles but they claimed they had done it. I told them I needed a bill to that effect for warranty purposes and would pull a sample of the oil once home with the car. The bill was for internal purposes in the dealership and this place is a real clip joint so the 160.00 for five litres of synthetic and filter installed. I assume would be the same amount dollar wise passed on to a customer.

Toyota once I called them were insistant that I could use any brand of synthetic oil that met their requirements if we do the oil changes ourselves. There was no exception though that not using their oil filter was going to affect warranty. what the differance between their filter and most others I suspect I will investigate. Also they will sell me their synthetic labeled with the car manufactures name for under seven dollars per litre .So I might grab that as well there just before the oil changes to help prove proof of compliance. Especially as the price overall is not bad in comparison to others in Canada.

This car aquisition was a pain in the posteriour. About four hours for each of two days to get the deal together at a price I could live with. The ideal of leaving any more money on the table than required was not optional when dealing with crooks. I realy believe my confusing them in several ways made them loose focus. That car was still worth more than I paid. Twenty three retail with sales tax a year ago in eastern Canada as by and large toyota dealers do not discount much if any here. Like with most new cars the purchasers are only interested in the cost per month. I did have to finance it through them with my bank or this dealership would have disconnected. They have to have the rebate.

Tried to pay the contract out on the way home but it was not in the system yet. Well the banks are open today as well so I will go drop in again. Nice low milage econo box. the car has no door dings or stone chips on the front or side at all yet. The wife is happy with it is what counts. Saved my ass for another year it seems. Have a happy christmas everyone.

Consideration and investigation of the real causes of the 3.5 failure should be reopened. As for the poster he should consider installing a fuel pressure gauge as we have to start somewhere to obtain information. As soon as it is a given that the injection pumps were a north american version specific item. Should cost less than twenty dollars to permanently install a gauge yourself. Since apparently this failure is unknown in the european engines of their type if true. It has to be whatever is differant. That only leaves the fuel and perhaps the injection pump I suspect and the emission control components if different.

Last edited by barry12345; 12-24-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2012, 09:58 AM
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Isn't oil in the vacuum system indicative of a bad vacuum pump?


In before 11 people tell you your rods are a bent.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:19 AM
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you should pull the shut off valve vacuum supply hose, look to see if it's got oil in there.
when they fail, they suck in engine oil... makes a mess of your dash too...
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
Isn't oil in the vacuum system indicative of a bad vacuum pump?


In before 11 people tell you your rods are a bent.
The Vacuum pulls things towards the Vacuum Pump.

In order for the Vacuum Pump to push Oil in the opposite direction I believe there would be obvious lack of vacuum issues would show up.


But, that is on Piston or the newer Van type Vacuum Pumps.


Vacuum Pumps with a Diaphragm could be different but I think there still would be symptoms of a vacuum loss issues.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:12 PM
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Oil like fuid in the system could also originate from a leaking modulator valve on the transmission as well? I do not even know if this model has one but really suspect it does. One way or another though there should be no fluids present in the vacuum system.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:26 PM
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oil consumption

Vacuum line from Alda to switchover valve have some oil in.Vacuum line from intake is clean.I took down intake and there is no oil.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
you should pull the shut off valve vacuum supply hose, look to see if it's got oil in there.
when they fail, they suck in engine oil... makes a mess of your dash too...
There is no oil leaking anywhere,but I will check Shut off valve.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:34 PM
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Aldas can fail their internal seal and leak this way . . Not any evidence further down the system indicates it is blocked up or the leakage is insignifigant compared to your overall oil loss experience in my opinion. The manifold pressure from the turbo in the intake manifild is what activates the alda not vacuum. If it is actually creating a constant drip could be your oil loss though I suppose.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
Aldas can fail their internal seal and leak this way . . Not any evidence further down the system indicates it is blocked up or the leakage is insignifigant compared to your overall oil loss experience in my opinion. The manifold pressure from the turbo in the intake manifild is what activates the alda not vacuum. If it is actually creating a constant drip could be your oil loss though I suppose.
Not much oil is dripping down there.How about valve seals?Maybe oil switching to synthetic cause damage to seals,but again car doesn't smoke at all.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:39 PM
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Valve guide seals are not much of an issue on mercedes diesel engines. Loose guides themselves are known from time to time. Can be a curse on their early gas engines though.

Yes the synthetic may have cleaned out something that is impacted but overall I suspect it burnt more of it because the actual viscocity is thinner. It offers the same protection but if the actual viscosity of the synthetic oil is thinner in service then it could use more. The sellers of synthetic state it offers the same protection but that does not automatically equate to it has the same viscosity or thickness if you preffer.

Since nothing is obvious I might just keep track of the rate of oil consumption over a period of time to establish if it is remaining stable or increasing.

You could pull the first injector and see if there is any evidence of more oil on it than there should be but at 500 miles to a quart I am not sure what you might see if anything. Your best hope is that the consumption remains constant perhaps.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:06 PM
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oil consumption

I did check everything,air intake from turbo is clean,pull injectors out and it is clean.Car don't loose any antifreeze,no smoke on start in the morning(lately is 5-10 F in morning and start excellent),no smoke if I step on.Only smoke sometime when I stop for a coffee 2 miles from home and when I restart car there is some smoke,but engine is not hot enough.Maybe ROD BENDER.It use about quoter of oil per 1000 miles.I found a member with updated rods for sale.Is it wort to try replacing rods.I was thinking to buy rods,head gasket and probably bearings and try to save the engine.All this start not long ago.What you guys think?I have to do something soon.Thank you for your help.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:45 AM
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Just for myself I would use a 3 litre 603 lower block. Besides known improved reliability I think it improves the resale value.

Good tight 603 lower blocks with and without cracked heads are still out there. If you are burning oil because of any bent rods currerntly. The bore getting damaged or ovalized is how the oil consumption would be occuring. Too expensive an overall proposition in comparison to a still good used 3 litre block . Everyone makes their own choices though. You can still use the car until it is more established what exactly is occuring.
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