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  #31  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:50 PM
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With 22:1 compression, ether would go off even if it was below zero. And no, IP timing is completely irrelevant to Ether sucked in with air.

White smoke from the exhaust is just fuel that got hot enough to almost combust.

And whats this 10 gauge and 12 gauge battery cable thing? 12 gauge is "smaller" than 10, and both are like pencil lead thickness. Battery cable on a diesel Mercedes should be #2 gauge or possibly 2/0
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:56 PM
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The wires I used are heavy duty...I think I got the gauge mixed up...think it was 12 and I went to 10...5/16in sounds like the size I used...they are thick...thicker then normal jumper cable wire...

When I measured the glows they all read .8 to 1 ohm....

After I get the timimg reset on the ip....I can place the new glows in to see if they make a difference....

One more thing, I should add. I removed the oil fil cap, to see if that would help the cranking....wihen you crank the engine with the cap off.....it has a steady thick cloud of white smoke coming out...like a chimney....
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post

I have seen diesel engines in good condition not start on ether because the ether wasn't introduced into the intake in such a way as to provide vaporized ether to several cylinders. Spraying a little in a non cranking engine, waiting a bit for it to vaporize and spread around, and then cranking was more likely to get combustion. Not that I am advocating use of ether in an OM617, just saying that an engine that doesn't crank on ether may still be ok.
Spraying Ether into an indirect injection diesel is one of the surest ways to damage it I can think of. Possible damages may include a blown head gasket, cracked or broken piston, broken rings, cracked or broken pre combustion chamber, broken glow plug, or a bent rod. On occasion one might do several of those things simultaneously. In extreme cases, but generally on larger engines, its even possible to twist the crankshaft right in two.

Lots of people spray it into Two Stroke Detroits to fire them up on a cold day, and it usually works okay, but has been known to do severe damage to them, too. Especially if they take off and run backwards.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post

One more thing, I should add. I removed the oil fil cap, to see if that would help the cranking....wihen you crank the engine with the cap off.....it has a steady thick cloud of white smoke coming out...like a chimney....
Sounds like blown rings or a broken or blown piston.
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
...wihen you crank the engine with the cap off.....it has a steady thick cloud of white smoke coming out...like a chimney....
That is a very bad sign. I'd say it's an indication the piston rings are not doing their job. I wouldn't do anything else without conducting a compression test.
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozarkdude View Post
Sounds like blown rings or a broken or blown piston.
This is what I suspect. I fear, like was said that above the crap that was ran through it before I got it froze up the rings....


I wish there was someone local that could help get the engine going again...


I put so much into this car....It has a new winsheild, 4 brandnew tires, new rotors/pads, evil servo overhauled, new radator/fan clutch, newer transmission, new shicks, new door seal, seats rebuilt, fuel system overhaul, and tons of other minor things......
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  #37  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:39 AM
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I have been there. I had a 240d that I purchased from a guy who ran WVO, the wrong way (insufficiently filtered, unheated) in upstate NY temps. This was about 6 yrs ago. I bought it sight unseen for $100 as a parts car, and when I picked it up it was in such nice shape I tried to make it a driver. Like you, I sank major cash into it.

Having had a car with that problem, what I cannot get my head around is the fact you say it ran fine when parked.

The cars with polymerized rings don't run fine, if my 240 was any indicator. It smoked and idled rough -- and the major problem was only on one pot. The rest still had mid-range compression numbers, and it actually peformed fine on the road (and this was an automatic 240d).

I tried every snake oil known to humankind to bring the rings back on that one cylinder, and just when it seemed to be clearing up, over the course of a week it basically dropped to 100 lbs on the gauge and smoked like a bear.

There was some urban legend flying around at one time that, if you had a car with WVO-compromised rings, synthetic oil would gum them up completely if you switched over to it from dino. I am not sure that was ever a fact -- and in any case, I think you reported using dino oil until now.

Is anyone thinking this sounds like a motor with the valve train seriously out of time? How else do you explain it not even firing on ether?
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Last edited by Zacharias; 01-13-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  #38  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post

Having had a car with that problem, what I cannot get my head around is the fact you say it ran fine when parked.
yeh the car ran fine, it had a little normal smoke from the rear....it always started up with out a problem. The car sat for about a month...then when I picked it up, we couldn't get it started but with enough cranking and a jump it fired off....every since then its had an issue starting cold or hot it would take a little cranking to get it going....that's why I assumed it was the starter....it idled amazingly smooth for the history it had.....
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  #39  
Old 01-13-2013, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
when I picked it up, we couldn't get it started but with enough cranking and a jump it fired off....every since then its had an issue starting cold or hot it would take a little cranking to get it going....
Ether will do that. You get it running with it once, the next time its harder, keep doing it and soon it wont ever run again. The smoke from the oil cap is blowby. Combustion gases are going right through or right past the pistons.

I would pull the cam cover and check valve timing, then run a compression check. Im guessing your valve timing is fine but there is internal damage.
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  #40  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:51 AM
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Given your situation, I'd think the best alternative at the moment, if you want to keep this car, is to swap in a used engine. A day or two's work and a few hundred dollars would get it running. You're in a pretty remote location so it might not be easy to find a used engine but it's worth looking.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
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1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #41  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Given your situation, I'd think the best alternative at the moment, if you want to keep this car, is to swap in a used engine. A day or two's work and a few hundred dollars would get it running. You're in a pretty remote location so it might not be easy to find a used engine but it's worth looking.
I was thinking that a used engine that ran good, maybe from a wrecking yard, would be a better idea too.
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  #42  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:18 PM
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So my friend told me what happen to the rings. He stated that rings are carboned up. says that because of the cold it allowed oil past the rings, that were already stuck to the pistons...that then allowed carbon to build up on the rings. So more or less the rings are froze onto the pistons, since its cold out the pistons shrank and the rings won't release to seal the gap. I put some oil into the cylinders to see if that may free up one or two. He said that if I get it started and take it down to him, he will re ring it for me..

On note of the IP timing, I can't get the IP to drip if the throttle is open. As soon as it is closed it will drip.....I just put the ip back where it was since the condition is from the rings...I suppose the IP needs to be removed, lined up and reinstalled correct? Also am I correct in thinking this has nothing to do with the no starting?
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  #43  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:39 PM
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To re-ring the engine you will have to remove it. Given the abuse that engine has suffered it's not worth just re-ringing it. It would need a complete rebuild which is probably not worth the money. If you're going to pull the engine, just put in a known good used engine.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #44  
Old 01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
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Put some MMO in the holes for 3 days to soak ,leave open with injectors and heat shields out to purge the MMO OUT of the cylinders While cranking.(messy business without rags)Then reinstall your injectors with heat shields,Ive tried this with an old stubborn motor ,the car was sold to me as a non running car .I LATER FOUND that the compression was low and the motor was on its way out ,drove it another yr ,just not very far.If you can try a risolone product called compression repair as an oil additive this might help,to this day my mechanic who tried everything under the sun to bring this car to life refused to believe that something in a can made the difference,it pulled the compression up just enough to build a spot for combustion and the motor idled out nicely. He came back the next day as I was reving the motor and I showed him the can and he just shook his head.It was a yr almost to the day when the motor gave out ,I always regret not opening the motor by pulling the head off just to see what condition the cylinder walls were like .
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chasinthesun View Post
Put some MMO in the holes for 3 days to soak ,leave open with injectors and heat shields out to purge the MMO OUT of the cylinders While cranking.(messy business without rags)Then reinstall your injectors with heat shields,Ive tried this with an old stubborn motor ,the car was sold to me as a non running car .I LATER FOUND that the compression was low and the motor was on its way out ,drove it another yr ,just not very far.If you can try a risolone product called compression repair as an oil additive this might help,to this day my mechanic who tried everything under the sun to bring this car to life refused to believe that something in a can made the difference,it pulled the compression up just enough to build a spot for combustion and the motor idled out nicely. He came back the next day as I was reving the motor and I showed him the can and he just shook his head.It was a yr almost to the day when the motor gave out ,I always regret not opening the motor by pulling the head off just to see what condition the cylinder walls were like .
I am trying something like this out, I have a product that says it will help loosen stuck rings....so I removed the glow plugs, added some....tapped the engine over...and repeated....going to let it sit for the night and purge things out tomorrow....see what happens.....sure the heck can't make things worse. though I did notice oil in the chambers......
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