Hybrids: Long-term costs - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shertex · #16 01-03-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I'm not sure if this is accurate. I know a guy who had the opportunity to buy an 04 Civic hybrid with a dead battery. He indicated that without the battery, the car was dead.

I suspect that the electric motor drives the wheels and the gas engine assists and charges the batteries.

Had he bought it, we joked about putting one of those huge baked bean can mufflers on so that when the engine did kick in, you'll have an almighty racket

Yeah, I'm getting some conflicting reports. In any event, the point is moot since, in VA, it won't pass inspection with the IMA light on....inspection is due next month. So my daughter either needs to get it fixed or get rid of the car.

Jeremy5848 · #17 01-03-2013, 07:05 PM

An excellent example of what I've always said about hybrids -- when the battery dies, the repair cost is equal to or more than the value of the car, so the car goes to the junkyard only 10 years old. What a waste.

Jermy

dcotejr · #18 01-03-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

If you're really OCD, you should also apply a discount to the future cash flow provided by performing the repair. Based on the time value of money, a string of future payments is worth less then the equivalent cash in hand today. So if the repair costs $5K today, you need to save comfortably more than that number over the coming years to economically justify the repair. Lots of calculators on the web make it easy to compute the value of a string of payments.

OK. I must be OCD, since that was my first observation

Dubyagee · #19 01-03-2013, 07:12 PM

Our sales guy drives a Prius and it has 300000 miles, all original. Only problem was AC related.

jcyuhn · #20 01-03-2013, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I'm not sure if this is accurate. I know a guy who had the opportunity to buy an 04 Civic hybrid with a dead battery. He indicated that without the battery, the car was dead.

I suspect that the electric motor drives the wheels and the gas engine assists and charges the batteries.

Had he bought it, we joked about putting one of those huge baked bean can mufflers on so that when the engine did kick in, you'll have an almighty racket

Nope, not on a Honda. The IMA is a pancake electric motor attached to the engine and providing power through the same conventional drivetrain. It provides acceleration assistance only. If the car is moving, the gas engine is running. A Honda hybrid cannot move under electric power only (at least one of the vintage under discussion).

What you describe is more like the powertrain on the Chevy Volt.

EDBSO · #21 01-03-2013, 10:26 PM

The local network did a show on the Volt and they calculated that the break even period for the average person would be only 27 years.

alabbasi · #22 01-03-2013, 10:30 PM

You W123 owners might come out the right way up

pawoSD · #23 01-04-2013, 12:00 AM

Most hybrids (at least prius) do not work with a bad battery as they need it to run the motor/transaxle and without it the car can't move at all. On a prius it takes the place of the alternator and also starts the engine when it is needed to kick in, so no battery = no go. Its lose-lose in my opinion. Way too complicated/too much environment damaging components/batteries for there to be any advantage. They also do way worse in the cold due to running the motor for warm-up and heat. A diesel will do good year round with no fancy batteries and computers/hybrid transaxles.

Ozarkdude · #24 01-04-2013, 01:41 AM

I dont know, I think reading a Prius forum, expecting those people to say anything bad about the cars is pretty crazy. From what ive read and heard, the cars arent that great or reliable but the owners will never admit it. Strange car, strange owners.

We need more of the lil turbo diesels they sell in europe and need to find a way to get the EPA's fingers from screwing them up.

vstech · #25 01-04-2013, 07:56 AM

"hybrid" vehicles are little more than sales gimmicks. the "feel good yuppies" seem to think they are the holy grail to carbon footprint living. many see that they are not THE answer, but more of a funding of the technology so better cars can be made that will eliminate the carbon footprint. very few think long term, and consider all the information.
the massive footprint from MAKING the vehicles, and the short term life of the vehicle itself, requiring replacement of the vehicle when it begins to break down.

I do agree, I read that the batteries were warranted for extended periods.

Zulfiqar · #26 01-04-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

I do a search and Prius seems to be very reliable, including battery. I think your friends experience is unusual rather then the norm. Personally I would not buy one but the choice is yours.

Ten-Year Old Toyota Hybrid Priuses Defy Early Critics
Prius owners - How do Prius tend to do after 100,000 miles? Would it be a bad idea to buy one over 100k miles? - Yahoo! Answers
How reliable has your Prius been? | PriusChat

There are more Prius owners in the world than the Priuschat forums, I know a bunch of them - some in the US and some outside. The transaxle problem person was in US though - NY to be exact.

Toyota recommended to use toyota T-IV fluid in the transmission of the early ones and according to them does not require servicing until at least 100,000 miles. The transaxle fluid is mostly used to cool down the two motors inside it. You can very well imagine how hot those motors can get and how terrible that oil can get when scalding hot. The transaxle in and out are through the motors - lose one and you lose drive, Toyota does not sell individual parts to service the trans.

Now imagine you owning that car - out of warranty, 145,000 miles old which is now non-driveable - how much do you think you can get for it?

Its a auto industry wet dream - as the owner is forced to dump the car and pony up for a new one every time its out of warranty repairs as the repair costs at that time usually surpass the market value of the car. Its not built like a MB that one can think of paying up because one knows that MB cars are tough and can return back to 100% roadworthy condition and will last quite a bit.

jcyuhn · #27 01-04-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBSO

The local network did a show on the Volt and they calculated that the break even period for the average person would be only 27 years.

I know two people who recently acquired Volts on a 3 year lease at $300/month. They are saving $125/month on gasoline costs, so are effectively driving the car for $175/month. Strikes me as a very reasonable cost to drive a new, reliable (I hope!), nice-ish car. I think my old 123 cost $125/month to drive based on depreciation and all the parts I had to put on it.

Maki · #28 01-04-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

I dont know, I think reading a Prius forum, expecting those people to say anything bad about the cars is pretty crazy. From what ive read and heard, the cars arent that great or reliable but the owners will never admit it. Strange car, strange owners.

Actually, the Priuschat tech forum reminds me a little of the diesel forum here. There are warnings to watch out for inverter pump failures in the early models; instructions on transmission fluid change; information on system voltage; etc., etc. If you want to maintain the car yourself, you'll find all the info you need to keep it out of the service bay.

The Prius is a high-tech car, and it attracts a certain type of gearhead just like a certain group of DiYers appreciates the OM617. At the same time, the Prius gas engine is just a little four-banger like so many millions of others Toyota has made. It's easy to stay on top of. The cars aren't without their flaws, but overall they're well engineered. I just wish they laid out the engine bay so that I could get my ham fists into tight spaces a little more easily.

As for Honda, I've never been able to figure out their hybrid marketing strategy. They started out with the original, distinctive-looking Insight, then switched to putting hybrid drive trains in their standard models. Now they're back to the hybrid-only lines. They also hooked some cars up with manual transmissions when they have a perfectly good CVT that would produce better mileage. I guess it's all about giving the buyer a choice, but it's probably cost them sales to people who base their choice on the EPA sticker.

Jeremy5848 · #29 01-04-2013, 10:55 AM

Maki is correct. The Prius is a unique-looking car; folks who drive one are able to say "Look at ME! I'm green!" OTOH, Honda's hybrid Civic (which I preferred when I rented it and later the Prius for a week each) looks like any other Civic plus the little "Hybrid" badge.

Except for the "auto nerds" like us and others on other forums, most people today have no interest in or ability for car maintenance. They take the car in when the computer tells them to (if then) and otherwise just drive it. It's probably a tribute to the manufacturers' skills that the cars last as long as they do, given the abuse.

Jeremy

02isb · #30 01-04-2013, 11:04 AM

some years back a guy in the tdi forums stopped in a toyota dealer to test drive a new prius. sales person gave him the keys and when he returned and said thanks but no thanks, the sales guy didnt even ask why or pressure him.

guy was leaving and couldnt help but ask why he didnt try to sell him on the prius, he was sure it was because he was driving a tdi. but to his surprise the sales person came right out and said he has never sold a pruis to someone who wanted a test drive first. the people who bought them, already had it in their minds they were gonna buy one no matter what!!

new pruis cars may be better and funner to drive by now though, i sat in a new volt while i was at the local chevy dealer and it was a very nice car. (didnt drive it) but at 42k its not worth it for the fuel savings alone thats my opinion.