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  #46  
Old 01-11-2013, 04:37 PM
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Thanks for all of your advice. Today at lunch I was talking with one of friends that does most of the repairs on his 1st gen 4Runner. He told me I should have the transmission work done by the mechanic (and get a used one if it truly needs to be replaced, and I already have that lined up with another forum member) and he would help me with the rest. I think I have made my decision and I'm going down that path. I think my mechanic will understand as he has mentioned to me in the past that he wanted to teach me how to do some of the work on our cars. I have always wanted to learn how to work on cars so here is my chance. With my friend's help and this forum, I feel pretty confident that I can learn how to do the work, I just have to find the time.
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80 300SD 183K
83 300D manual 100K chassis
86 Yugo GV 48K
88 Yugo GVX 9K
90 300D 230K
90 Lexus LS400 189k
91 F150 4.6 4v 160K
93 190E 3.0 Sportline Limited Edition 230K
93 190E 2.6 Sportline Limited Edition 91K
96 MGM LS 242K- RIP
03 Sprinter Passenger 220K
06 MGM LS 105K-sold
Parts cars:
77 240D Auto-RIP
79 300SD- RIP
80 300SD
83 240D-RIP
85 240D-RIP
87 190D-RIP
91 190E 2.3- RIP
93 190E 2.6-RIP
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:25 AM
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The tranny he's looking at is from an '87 190DT that was pulled for a manual conversion. His car is an '87 190D n/a. Does anyone know if there is a difference in the 2 trannys that would make this swap a bad idea. Recently, a forum member swapped his gas motor for a diesel and kept the gas tranny without issue so everything must bolt up? I've read the clutches are more robust in the DT models but don't know if indeed this is true.

Don't want him to compound his tranny misfortune with a replacement that doesn't work right with his motor.
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  #48  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:57 AM
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I skimmed back through this thread & didn't see any significant diagnostic information. If this is actually the case, it is akin to urinating off the high side of a sail boat, will likely become expensive and may not end with a daily driveable car.

A forerunner and other vehicles do not have a 722.xx trans. These trans can be adjusted/tuned and some things can be repaired without removing the trans. At least measure pressures and do the research so you can interpret. Check out the B2 and change fluid and filter while at it.

Regarding brakes and other things, parts are cheap compared to the labor. Most here have learned to wrench and enjoy it or at least don't mind doing it. A common statement is "There is no cheap Mercedes."

I recently was rear ended and paid $3000 for my 85SD. I log most of my parts & supplies. I've spent ~$3,700 over 6 years in parts and now have most of my cash back. I'm still driving the car and have most systems in good shape. I consider that cheap or to look at it differently, count it as paying me well for the parts install (which I enjoyed).
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  #49  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
X5. Anyone who didn't investigate a B2 piston problem prior to condemning the transmission probably shouldn't be working on it.
This comment bears repeating. A mechanic who did not investiage a possible b2 piston failure (which is a simple and inexpensive repair) on this transmission should not be working on the car.

Given your apparent willingness to throw money away, let me volunteer to check the B2 piston for the low price of $800.
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  #50  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
This comment bears repeating. A mechanic who did not investiage a possible b2 piston failure (which is a simple and inexpensive repair) on this transmission should not be working on the car.

Given your apparent willingness to throw money away, let me volunteer to check the B2 piston for the low price of $800.
I undercut Kerry's offer by $50!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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  #51  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Given your apparent willingness to throw money away.
No need for insults. Maybe you weren't, but I was young once and spent some time learning. Trusting a mechanic who has provided services to his family over an extended time is not an unreasonable thing to do. He's learning there are other options besides writing a check to someone else for his auto repairs.

I'm the member offering him a replacement tranny. Its a known good tranny pulled for a manual conversion with 100K. His tranny is from a car with 318K and would not go into forward gears. If I already had the tranny out of the car, I would absolutely use the known low mileage tranny instead of attempting to repair a broken high mileage tranny.

I really don't care if I sell the tranny as I should hold onto it as a known good spare for my 190 but I'm itching to convert to manual if I can find the donor at a reasonable price.

So the question still remains, is an auto from an '87 190DT fine for an '87 190D N/A?
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  #52  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkenvol View Post
...
So the question still remains, is an auto from an '87 190DT fine for an '87 190D N/A?
The Russian EPC found via EverythingBenz - Mercedes-Benz Forum and Web Search Using Google

says that for chassis 201.126 (190D 2.5 n/a) the transmission was 722.414

for chassis 201.128 (190D 2.5 turbo) the transmission was 722.413

I don't know what the difference is.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #53  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:22 AM
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^^ I would expect the valve body to be different, and maybe the output flange. Torque converter? These could be swapped. Probably close enough.
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  #54  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
^^ I would expect the valve body to be different, and maybe the output flange. Torque converter? These could be swapped. Probably close enough.
I've just been busy with google and guess what one of the threads I started came up with some information!

Who'd have thought it eh?

FSM + EPC data => Chassis / model / transmission / drive train information

"Dr Sternschnuppe" and "pdrayton" added some good information as did "shortsguy1" who added a good PDF file.

From the information added in the thread it doesn't look like the .414 and .413 are interchangeable.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #55  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:56 PM
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A classic example of "he's forgotten more than I know".

From my perspective the question still remains is will the 722.414 work properly bolted behind a n/a 2.5. As I said before, the physical dimensions / bolt patterns are the same. My local tranny guy said the turbo model was a "beefed up" version of the 722.413. His opinion was the 722.403, 722.413, and 722.414 were all interchangable and if one were searching for a replacement of a 722.403 or 722.413, that a 722.414 was the best option.

This info is from the local transmission shop and is not being presented as absolute fact and I was hoping someone on the forum with MB tranny expertise could confirm or deny this.

Forum member GregMN reports in this thread Starting my Diesel conversion 2.2 into 87 190E body using a gasser tranny (722.408 or 409) behind his diesel so it might be that all trannys from this era swap with only minor differences or improvements / upgrades differentiate within this tranny family through the years?

I PM'ed GregMN so maybe he will join the discussion.
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Last edited by Walkenvol; 01-18-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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  #56  
Old 01-17-2013, 05:21 PM
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I was trying to find the same information last night but my searches did not pull up any results. I just got news from my dad that our mechanic has already requested the information of the differences between these transmissions from Mercedes and will be looking at it. Also, our mechanic said that when he checked the transmission fluid, it was a milky pink and had water in it. He thinks the transmission had either been pulled out of a junkyard after sitting for years or maybe the other mechanic that the PO took the car to diluted the transmission fluid with water.
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80 300SD 183K
83 300D manual 100K chassis
86 Yugo GV 48K
88 Yugo GVX 9K
90 300D 230K
90 Lexus LS400 189k
91 F150 4.6 4v 160K
93 190E 3.0 Sportline Limited Edition 230K
93 190E 2.6 Sportline Limited Edition 91K
96 MGM LS 242K- RIP
03 Sprinter Passenger 220K
06 MGM LS 105K-sold
Parts cars:
77 240D Auto-RIP
79 300SD- RIP
80 300SD
83 240D-RIP
85 240D-RIP
87 190D-RIP
91 190E 2.3- RIP
93 190E 2.6-RIP
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  #57  
Old 01-18-2013, 07:42 AM
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It is likely that the trans cooler lines on the turbo will be slightly larger & the change points will be slightly different. If it bolts up & it sounds like it will, there is no sound reason not to use it. You can have fun pulling your old one to bits & seeing how it works.
Given we are not talking about a $50k late model car, I would not get too concerned.
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  #58  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
I undercut Kerry's offer by $50!
I Overcut Stretch's offer by $1:00! B2 piston simple!!
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  #59  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
It is likely that the trans cooler lines on the turbo will be slightly larger & the change points will be slightly different. If it bolts up & it sounds like it will, there is no sound reason not to use it. You can have fun pulling your old one to bits & seeing how it works.
Given we are not talking about a $50k late model car, I would not get too concerned.
I have done that recently, and I was awarded the "insane" badge by the other half.

her concern was - WHO and WHY would someone get their jollies by dismantling a busted automatic transmission. - btw this was a JY trans from a gas W124 - it was flooded with water too.
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  #60  
Old 01-20-2013, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
...
her concern was - WHO and WHY would someone get their jollies by dismantling a busted automatic transmission. - btw this was a JY trans from a gas W124 - it was flooded with water too.
Well that would be me!

Show her these links - I've done two different types now

722.118 Automatic transmission rebuild (Monster DIY)

and

722.303 in bits photo shoot

So that's the who.

The why? Well sometimes these things fail because of small inexpensive problems but you won't know if you don't take a look.

Treating these transmissions as a black box that should never be touched by a DIY mechanic isn't smart in my opinion.


However, I must concede that the fix it yourself approach can be a cause of consternation between man and wife. Most whinging women will only accept a solution that doesn't cost any time, money or effort and usually it mustn't make any mess when their other half is performing the task. Give the job to a professional, however, and they are perfectly happy to pay through the nose for a solution that might not even work...

...and clean up the mess left behind and give them an endless supply of coffee and praise - Oh to be a professional!!!!!

(Sorry for the rant - you might have noticed I'm going through a divorce at the moment! - see sig)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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