Thanks for all of your advice. Today at lunch I was talking with one of friends that does most of the repairs on his 1st gen 4Runner. He told me I should have the transmission work done by the mechanic (and get a used one if it truly needs to be replaced, and I already have that lined up with another forum member) and he would help me with the rest. I think I have made my decision and I'm going down that path. I think my mechanic will understand as he has mentioned to me in the past that he wanted to teach me how to do some of the work on our cars. I have always wanted to learn how to work on cars so here is my chance. With my friend's help and this forum, I feel pretty confident that I can learn how to do the work, I just have to find the time.

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Current: 1975 450SEL, 83 300D, 88 Yugo GVX, 90 300D OM603 swap, 91 F150 4.6 4v swap, 93 190E Sportline LE 3.0L M104 swap, 93 190E Sportline LE Megasquirt, 03 Sprinter, 06 E500 4Matic wagon.

The tranny he's looking at is from an '87 190DT that was pulled for a manual conversion. His car is an '87 190D n/a. Does anyone know if there is a difference in the 2 trannys that would make this swap a bad idea. Recently, a forum member swapped his gas motor for a diesel and kept the gas tranny without issue so everything must bolt up? I've read the clutches are more robust in the DT models but don't know if indeed this is true.

Don't want him to compound his tranny misfortune with a replacement that doesn't work right with his motor.

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You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need.

I skimmed back through this thread & didn't see any significant diagnostic information. If this is actually the case, it is akin to urinating off the high side of a sail boat, will likely become expensive and may not end with a daily driveable car.

A forerunner and other vehicles do not have a 722.xx trans. These trans can be adjusted/tuned and some things can be repaired without removing the trans. At least measure pressures and do the research so you can interpret. Check out the B2 and change fluid and filter while at it.

Regarding brakes and other things, parts are cheap compared to the labor. Most here have learned to wrench and enjoy it or at least don't mind doing it. A common statement is "There is no cheap Mercedes."

I recently was rear ended and paid $3000 for my 85SD. I log most of my parts & supplies. I've spent ~$3,700 over 6 years in parts and now have most of my cash back. I'm still driving the car and have most systems in good shape. I consider that cheap or to look at it differently, count it as paying me well for the parts install (which I enjoyed).

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

This comment bears repeating. A mechanic who did not investiage a possible b2 piston failure (which is a simple and inexpensive repair) on this transmission should not be working on the car.

Given your apparent willingness to throw money away, let me volunteer to check the B2 piston for the low price of $800.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I undercut Kerry's offer by $50!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

No need for insults. Maybe you weren't, but I was young once and spent some time learning. Trusting a mechanic who has provided services to his family over an extended time is not an unreasonable thing to do. He's learning there are other options besides writing a check to someone else for his auto repairs.

I'm the member offering him a replacement tranny. Its a known good tranny pulled for a manual conversion with 100K. His tranny is from a car with 318K and would not go into forward gears. If I already had the tranny out of the car, I would absolutely use the known low mileage tranny instead of attempting to repair a broken high mileage tranny.

I really don't care if I sell the tranny as I should hold onto it as a known good spare for my 190 but I'm itching to convert to manual if I can find the donor at a reasonable price.

So the question still remains, is an auto from an '87 190DT fine for an '87 190D N/A?

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You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need.

The Russian EPC found via EverythingBenz - Mercedes-Benz Forum and Web Search Using Google

says that for chassis 201.126 (190D 2.5 n/a) the transmission was 722.414

for chassis 201.128 (190D 2.5 turbo) the transmission was 722.413

I don't know what the difference is.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

^^ I would expect the valve body to be different, and maybe the output flange. Torque converter? These could be swapped. Probably close enough.

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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

I've just been busy with google and guess what one of the threads I started came up with some information!

Who'd have thought it eh?

FSM + EPC data => Chassis / model / transmission / drive train information

"Dr Sternschnuppe" and "pdrayton" added some good information as did "shortsguy1" who added a good PDF file.

From the information added in the thread it doesn't look like the .414 and .413 are interchangeable.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

A classic example of "he's forgotten more than I know".

From my perspective the question still remains is will the 722.414 work properly bolted behind a n/a 2.5. As I said before, the physical dimensions / bolt patterns are the same. My local tranny guy said the turbo model was a "beefed up" version of the 722.413. His opinion was the 722.403, 722.413, and 722.414 were all interchangable and if one were searching for a replacement of a 722.403 or 722.413, that a 722.414 was the best option.

This info is from the local transmission shop and is not being presented as absolute fact and I was hoping someone on the forum with MB tranny expertise could confirm or deny this.

Forum member GregMN reports in this thread Starting my Diesel conversion 2.2 into 87 190E body using a gasser tranny (722.408 or 409) behind his diesel so it might be that all trannys from this era swap with only minor differences or improvements / upgrades differentiate within this tranny family through the years?

I PM'ed GregMN so maybe he will join the discussion.

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You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need.

I was trying to find the same information last night but my searches did not pull up any results. I just got news from my dad that our mechanic has already requested the information of the differences between these transmissions from Mercedes and will be looking at it. Also, our mechanic said that when he checked the transmission fluid, it was a milky pink and had water in it. He thinks the transmission had either been pulled out of a junkyard after sitting for years or maybe the other mechanic that the PO took the car to diluted the transmission fluid with water.

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Current: 1975 450SEL, 83 300D, 88 Yugo GVX, 90 300D OM603 swap, 91 F150 4.6 4v swap, 93 190E Sportline LE 3.0L M104 swap, 93 190E Sportline LE Megasquirt, 03 Sprinter, 06 E500 4Matic wagon.

It is likely that the trans cooler lines on the turbo will be slightly larger & the change points will be slightly different. If it bolts up & it sounds like it will, there is no sound reason not to use it. You can have fun pulling your old one to bits & seeing how it works.
Given we are not talking about a $50k late model car, I would not get too concerned.

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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

I Overcut Stretch's offer by $1:00! B2 piston simple!!

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1987 300SDL 314K mi, counting; #22 Head
1999 E300Turbo 405K original miles
1997 E320 180K mi (Son's)
2002 ML320 (Son's)
1998 S320 140K mi (Son's) sold
1985 300SD 311K mi
1984 300D 324K mi (killed by a hit-n-run turd)
*************************************

I have done that recently, and I was awarded the "insane" badge by the other half.

her concern was - WHO and WHY would someone get their jollies by dismantling a busted automatic transmission. - btw this was a JY trans from a gas W124 - it was flooded with water too.

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

Well that would be me!

Show her these links - I've done two different types now

722.118 Automatic transmission rebuild (Monster DIY)

and

722.303 in bits photo shoot

So that's the who.

The why? Well sometimes these things fail because of small inexpensive problems but you won't know if you don't take a look.

Treating these transmissions as a black box that should never be touched by a DIY mechanic isn't smart in my opinion.


However, I must concede that the fix it yourself approach can be a cause of consternation between man and wife. Most whinging women will only accept a solution that doesn't cost any time, money or effort and usually it mustn't make any mess when their other half is performing the task. Give the job to a professional, however, and they are perfectly happy to pay through the nose for a solution that might not even work...

...and clean up the mess left behind and give them an endless supply of coffee and praise - Oh to be a professional!!!!!

(Sorry for the rant - you might have noticed I'm going through a divorce at the moment! - see sig)

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!