5-SPD Transmission for your W123 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

charmalu · #1 01-27-2013, 01:43 AM

This was posted before, but we have a lot of new members here since then. Finding the 5-spd trans for our W123`s is like finding the Needle in the Hay Stack. the 5-spd were not sold in the North American market, and the only way to come across one is in a Grey Market vehicle. sometimes they show up in PNP or other Junk Yards.

The only Grey Market I came across was an 81 300D, it had a 4-spd manual trans, but it did have the FW for the 5 cylinder engine

which is 38# compared to the 240D FW which is 28#`s. I was looking for one of these FW`s for over 3 years.

There are the 5-spd transmissions in the W201 and some of the W124 chassis. but they have the starter on the left side compared to the OM616 and OM617 engines.

This thread is quite involved, but you will end up with a 5-spd for your W123.
How to adapt a W201 5-speed to OM616/OM617 applications

This next thread is another modification with less work.
5 speed manual om617

Charlie

rs899 · #2 01-27-2013, 07:23 AM

Charlie.

Very disappointing. I thought you had come up with a silver bullet....

I'll just have to keep looking....

charmalu · #3 01-27-2013, 06:19 PM

I did, you just have to polish it up.

Ya gotta admit, they were being creative and thinking out side the box.

That second link. the guy used a 1/4" plate between the Adaptor plate and the tramnmission, that moves the trans back a bit and seems like it would cause a problem with the release bearing pushing against the Pressure Plate. In other words, shorten the throw.

Maybe a 1/4" of the Adaptor Plate could be machind off to compinsate for it.

Charlie

Air&Road · #4 01-27-2013, 09:42 PM

This was a commonly discussed subject a few years ago and there was availability from some Eastern European sources for those who want to go to that much trouble.

NC-Diesel · #5 01-27-2013, 10:19 PM

I have a cousin who's ex lives in the UK. I've had him looking around for one for me with almost no luck. Doe snot seem to be an easy thing to get even across the pond...

Air&Road · #6 01-27-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC-Diesel

I have a cousin who's ex lives in the UK. I've had him looking around for one for me with almost no luck. Doe snot seem to be an easy thing to get even across the pond...

These cars are old enough that they are not common in Western Europe. They are much more common in places like Poland and the Czhek Republic.

ROLLGUY · #7 01-27-2013, 11:06 PM

I am planning to put a 5 speed in my 300D 4X4 project. I will be using a Jeep AX15 and Dana 300 TC. I got an adapter from: Mercedes Diesel Engine Adapter Kits
You could just as easily use an AX5 (non 4X4), which are plentiful and cheap. I think it would be much easier than welding in a 616/617 bell to a 201 5 speed, not to mention buying 2 transmissions to make one. I don't know if anyone has tried this yet, but it may be a better solution. There is also the option of using any mini truck 5 speed, and making an engine to trans adapter. I am going with the Jeep trans, as an adapter is already available. I believe an adapter for the Toyota is available as well, as the 617 in a 4runner is a popular swap.

Stretch · #8 01-28-2013, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

These cars are old enough that they are not common in Western Europe. They are much more common in places like Poland and the Czhek Republic.

I don't think they are that common there either.

Since lots of the former eastern block countries have joined the EU they've had to start some form of road safety checks.

Even non former eastern block countries have had to change => Malta for example was a car nut's dream 12 years ago. Everywhere you looked there was an interesting vehicle - it was a bit like how I imagine Cuba is / was - only with European cars rather than 1950s American. I went back to Malta about 6 years ago and all of the old car and bus charm has gone.

Walkenvol · #9 01-28-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

You could just as easily use an AX5 (non 4X4), which are plentiful and cheap.

AX-15's come in both 2WD and 4WD models.

You might trade one set of problems (mating the W201 5-speed to the OM617) for an entirely new set of problems. The MB trannys fit really tight under the car. How does the size of an AX-15 compare? Will it fit in the tunnel and keep the driveline alligned? What about the cross member? How will you mate the drive shafts?

However, you might find these problems less trouble to resolve making this a better solution. I'd like to see someone take this on.

ROLLGUY · #10 01-28-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkenvol

AX-15's come in both 2WD and 4WD models.

I was not aware of that. It may be that the AX15 is more common in the 4WD version, and the AX5 for the 2WD (at least that WAS my understanding). I may look at Jeeps the next time I go wreckin' yardin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkenvol

You might trade one set of problems (mating the W201 5-speed to the OM617) for an entirely new set of problems. The MB trannys fit really tight under the car. How does the size of an AX-15 compare? Will it fit in the tunnel and keep the driveline alligned? What about the cross member? How will you mate the drive shafts?

However, you might find these problems less trouble to resolve making this a better solution. I'd like to see someone take this on.

If I did not have too many projects now, I might look further into putting a 2WD Jeep trans in a 123. I don't think the driveline will be much of an issue though. It will need to be shortened anyway, so grafting the slip yoke from a Jeep driveshaft to the front of the Benz shaft is the same amount of work. The cross member would need to be fabricated, but again, not a big challenge.

Air&Road · #11 01-28-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I don't think they are that common there either.

Since lots of the former eastern block countries have joined the EU they've had to start some form of road safety checks.

Even non former eastern block countries have had to change => Malta for example was a car nut's dream 12 years ago. Everywhere you looked there was an interesting vehicle - it was a bit like how I imagine Cuba is / was - only with European cars rather than 1950s American. I went back to Malta about 6 years ago and all of the old car and bus charm has gone.

Thanks for the clarification Stretch! I spent lots of time in Europe from 2000 to 2003, so my information is obviously dated. Thanks for keeping me from sending someone on a wild goose chase.

SirNik84 · #12 01-28-2013, 05:27 PM

Charlie!
You've done it, you've got my brain working! Looks like the answer is simply a new adapter plate. My neighbor gave me some 3/8" steel plate... I have to much crap going on around the house to get to this soon. but when I get home I'm gonna take some of that plate and set it aside with the adapter plate i have to reminde me to think about this.

First though, way can't the start bump be part of the adapter plate?

winmutt · #13 01-28-2013, 06:17 PM

The best bet is stick a 606 with a 6spd in

Stretch · #14 01-30-2013, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

The best bet is stick a 606 with a 6spd in

Or an OM648...

...I really want an OM648...

Air&Road · #15 01-30-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirNik84

Charlie!
You've done it, you've got my brain working! Looks like the answer is simply a new adapter plate. My neighbor gave me some 3/8" steel plate... I have to much crap going on around the house to get to this soon. but when I get home I'm gonna take some of that plate and set it aside with the adapter plate i have to reminde me to think about this.

First though, way can't the start bump be part of the adapter plate?

If you are going to fabricate an adapter plate, use eccentrics to allow precise location. Then use a dial indicator to precisely locate the transmission input shaft such that it is perfectly concentric with the crankshaft centerline. If you don't, you will have a short lived transmission.

There should be a lot of reading about such procedures with a dial indicator. It will be worthwhile to study up on this.