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  #31  
Old 06-15-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
For all of you who have purchased a Gen II kit, I have another update. I am planning on making another bracket to help secure the bottom of the compressor mounting plate. It will mount using longer bolts in 3 of the pan bolt holes, and nuts on the top. Another hole (1/2") is drilled in the compressor mounting plate .625 from each edge. Here is a look at the prototype:

Location of drilled hole:



The bracket is needed more for the 616 application, but I have prototypes made for both the 616 & 617 turbo (they are different). I am not sure if the 617 N/A has the same lower pan as the turbo. If it is different, I will need to make a third bracket. From now on, all of the plates will have the hole drilled in them, and the bracket should be available shortly. If you have a plate already installed, it is possible to drill the hole without removing the compressor. I will post here when the brackets are available, and send them to those that have already purchased a kit....Rich




What's the issue you are having with the plate? Vibrations? Plate flexing? Does the Gen 1 have the same issue?


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  #32  
Old 06-15-2013, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
What's the issue you are having with the plate? Vibrations? Plate flexing? Does the Gen 1 have the same issue?


.
I have not heard from anyone about any problem, but I found that on my 240 the belt was chirping regardless of how tight it was. There is less support on the lower part of the plate on a 616, so this new bracket fixed the problem. All of the 617 applications I have done have not had any problems. It may be that the piece of the block that sticks out just above the upper pan on a 617 offers more support. I am making brackets for both anyway, and drilling all the plates, not knowing what engine they will go on. I don't think the bracket will work on the Gen 1 plate, as the bolt would be right where the compressor mounting tab is. However, the new bracket could be welded in place for the Gen 1 applications if needed.....Rich
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2013, 06:28 PM
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Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BillGrissom View Post
Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.
Like I said, the 617 applications have not had any problems. The plate does not touch the upper pan at all, but rather may touch the casting that sticks out just above the upper pan. Either way, a 617 lower bracket is in the works and when they are finished, one will be sent to all that have purchased a Gen 2 kit. One will also become part of future kits sold. If you have a gen 1 kit, the bracket will still work, but it will need to be welded in place. It should be fairly easy to do for someone that can weld overhead.....Rich
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillGrissom View Post
Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.
I'd like to offer up my solution to the issue of extra support for the compressor.

As I analyzed the problem, I was very concerned about the amount of the bracket that was cantilevered and the amount of stress and vibration that was present. I don't have the capability to do finite element analysis or anything other than "back-of-the-napkin" engineering, so I can't speak definitively. I also had a problem in that, I couldn't use the bottom adjusting solution because of space so I had to develop a belt adjusting strategy that could be accomplished from above. In fact I had to cut the bottom two inches of the bracket off. (My 617 is in a 107 chassis, so I have extremely limited space to work with.)

My solution is to tie the outboard ear on the Sanden to the lower P/S bolt like this: ( I apologize for the picture - it was taken during mock up with my junk compressor and temp rods for mounting )



The adjusting rod is a 1/2" tube with heim joints on either end. I used a long 1/2" bolt with sleeves to keep the lower heim joint at the proper 90 degree position relative to the compressor. I needed to use a longer bolt on the P/S pump due to the additional width of the heim joint. The adjuster nut in the middle makes adjusting a snap using a crows foot wrench. Also, using this strategy puts the adjustment components in tension rather than compression.



This provides a pretty substantial triangulation which is illustrated in the following



If I were using an unmodified GenII bracket, I'd supplement the support using this strategy. The adjustment procedure would be as follows - double-check the tension on the P/S belt; loosen the bottom adjuster on the GenII bracket; adjust the A/C belt tension with the adjuster rod; snug up the bottom adjuster as backup.

I've got over 5k miles on the setup and the only problem has been keeping the belt in adjustment. (I think this is mainly due to belt stretch due to using a cheap belt - my bad!).
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  #36  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach4 View Post

If I were using an unmodified GenII bracket, I'd supplement the support using this strategy. The adjustment procedure would be as follows - double-check the tension on the P/S belt; loosen the bottom adjuster on the GenII bracket; adjust the A/C belt tension with the adjuster rod; snug up the bottom adjuster as backup.

I've got over 5k miles on the setup and the only problem has been keeping the belt in adjustment. (I think this is mainly due to belt stretch due to using a cheap belt - my bad!).
I know that you had no choice but to to it this way, and I commend you for being able to accomplish it. For the normal 123, 126, 116 applications, there are hoses and a bracket in the way of where the adjusting rod would be. The lower support bracket I am making is much more simple, and gives the support where it is needed. The belt wants to pull the compressor toward the crank, so supporting the bottom of the compressor mounting will solve that problem directly. I am willing to absorb the cost of this added bracket if not just for peace of mind. It may cost upwards of $5 each to produce (they will be cad plated), but I think it will become a necessity in the long run. I know the 616 will benefit from the extra support, but again, the 617 kits will get one as well.....Rich
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  #37  
Old 06-17-2013, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I know that you had no choice but to to it this way, and I commend you for being able to accomplish it. For the normal 123, 126, 116 applications, there are hoses and a bracket in the way of where the adjusting rod would be.
Good point. I should have stipulated that I did some significant modifications to the oil line support bracket in order to support the modified oil cooler lines I used.





It's been so long since I did the oil cooler line mod, I forget how the original lines ran. And I should also state that I'm using an oil filter and lines off an SD (126) that may put the lines in a different relative position.

I think the point I was trying to make is, that if someone wants to try to add some top support, the solution I found is one that works. And if they've got the fab skills to weld up an adjuster rod, moving the cooler lines an inch or two and modifying the support bracket should be within reach.
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  #38  
Old 06-23-2013, 04:51 AM
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Can anyone tell me the correct belt size for a OM616? I asked Roll guy, but he has been out of pocket. Hoping to get the install finished tomorrow if I can get the right belt
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  #39  
Old 06-23-2013, 11:54 AM
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zeke: i cannot be sure, but here is what the pelican told me to order for a 617:
Belt - A/C - 13 X 925 Brand: Contitech (1985 Mercedes-Benz 300D Sedan)
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2013, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Can anyone tell me the correct belt size for a OM616? I asked Roll guy, but he has been out of pocket. Hoping to get the install finished tomorrow if I can get the right belt
See Rollguy's quote below

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
Along with the above fastener update, I have found that the belt that was sent with the kits is too long. The 15385 belts I had were for the Gen 1 kit. The proper belt is a 15375 (one inch shorter). If your adjustment screw is all the way out, your belt is too long. The photo below is with the long belt:
...
Rollguy uses a standard American belt sizing. If you were using a Contitech belt in MM, I believe or guess the belt size would be around 13 x 960 or 13 x 965.
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  #41  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:56 PM
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Thanks, I missed that. I got the 15375 belt, but the suction hose seems too short to reach the compressor.....I guess I need to take it to a hydraulic shop and have them make it a little longer?

I have never had a hose fabricated before...do I take the hose and car in and they can measure and rebuild it?
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Current Mercedes
1979 maple yellow 240D 4-speed


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1980 orient red 240D 4-speed

Gone and NOT fondly remembered:
1982 Chna Blue 300TD

Other car in the stable:
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:38 PM
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Sorry all, I have been gone for the past few days. The belt in the kits I sell is for the 617, and for the Sanden compressor retrofit kit. Factory specs are no longer applicable. I put a used belt on my 616 when I installed the kit because I realized it needed to be shorter. The belt I put on was a 17375. It rides in the drive pulley groove just fine, but rides proud of the compressor pulley a little. I imagine that a 15370 would work, but I have not tried it. All this to say I really don't know the proper size belt for the 616. I have not had an order for a kit to be installed on a 616 before Charlie (Charmalu) bought one, but he has not installed it yet. Zeke seems to be the second (that I am aware of). PM on the way Zeke........Rich
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:06 PM
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ROLLGUY: Here is the photo of the hard line and soft line junction. The hard line fits in the brackets perfectly (First MB I have had with BOTH brackets working)!
Attached Thumbnails
Gen. II-616/ 617 Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit For Sale + Install Inst.-ac.jpg  
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Current Mercedes
1979 maple yellow 240D 4-speed


Gone and fondly remembered:
1980 orient red 240D 4-speed

Gone and NOT fondly remembered:
1982 Chna Blue 300TD

Other car in the stable:
2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI / 6-speed MT

Last edited by zeke; 06-24-2013 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Added picture with actual measurement
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2013, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
ROLLGUY: Here is the photo of the hard line and soft line junction. The hard line fits in the brackets perfectly (First MB I have had with BOTH brackets working)!
It seems that the pipe is in fact at least 2 inches higher than the pipe on my 617. On mine, the fitting is very close to the P S pump casting. It appears that I need to make 2 different hoses, one for the older style (higher), and one for the newer (lower).
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2013, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
It seems that the pipe is in fact at least 2 inches higher than the pipe on my 617. On mine, the fitting is very close to the P S pump casting. It appears that I need to make 2 different hoses, one for the older style (higher), and one for the newer (lower).
The older N/A 616/617 are like that. You can however retrofit the older style line with the newer style line if you get the proper length rubber hose leading to the tx valve.


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