Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2013, 09:51 AM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
Starting problem Help, engine runaway

I was driving around all day yesterday. The motor was performing well.

Got in to start it this morning glowed it then when it fired up it immediately revved real high and started to climb. I shut it off immediately and now it will no longer start. The starter will turn it over but it will not fire.

Last night I re-attached the oil pressure sender wire and put a new gasket on the side cover of the injection pump. But that was all I did.

I noticed that the glow plug light (since I put in this "new to me engine" stays on a lot longer than the old engine.

What would cause it to rev like that? and then not start back up?

Mark

__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:01 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,171
I'd start by taking a close look at the area you worked in around the injection pump. I would suspect a loose line, wire or hose.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:31 AM
Fattyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 544
Did you remove the vacuum shut off pod?
If so it was not put back correctly.
Check your work, you will be the best person to determine what you did.
__________________
'70 F100 shortbed
'82 Diesel Westy
'83 Euro 300TD
Curtlo Viper
Yeti ARC
Surly long haul trucker
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:38 AM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
Nope. All I did was remove the side cover to install a new gasket. Did not mess with the vacuum.
I am guessing the glow plugs are OK as it fired right up first thing.
Is there perhaps a blown relay or fuse from the over-revving that would cause this no start?
__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:39 AM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
RedTop Battery is now getting weak from trying to start it.

M
__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:47 AM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,371
Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkblotz View Post
RedTop Battery is now getting weak from trying to start it.

M
Recharge the battery.
Do NOT try to start the car again until you Call me.


.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:08 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,371
On the phone

multiple calls (hours) walking through diagnosis.

Please note this is a conversion 1987 300DT OM603 installed in a 1991 300GD SWB.

***************************************

Turbo breather intake hose removed, lightest possible (normal) oil trace found.

Turbo charged air (cross over) pipe removed (left off for diagnosis), lightest possible (normal) oil trace found.

Attempted to start, no joy.

Loosened injector line #1 and #2, cranked the engine, no fuel flow.

Removed the vacuum shutoff hose.

Attempted to start, no joy.

Removed ALDA, left off for further diagnosis.

Attempted to start, no joy.

Removed fuel return hose to test fuel flow (not pressure).
Looking for 150 CC in 30 seconds of cranking = 5 oz.

Output = 4 oz.
I suspect this is acceptable, the fuel tank is lower than the engine on the 300GD body making it work harder.
We discussed replacing the mechanical lift pump with an electric unit at a later date.

Random thought:
The oil pressure sender wire was removed.

Attempted to start, no joy.

The shutoff valve was removed.

Attempted to start, no joy.

The injection pump side cover was removed

Everything is visually functional.
Everything that was removed previously was reassembled/installed.

***************************************

OK, we have a tentative diagnosis of internal governor damage.

The old ALDA was tested before reinstalling and found to be broken = not holding pressure.
No start.

He installed a spare good ALDA, and the engine started instantly, revving hard to 4000 RPM before he could shutdown..

After shutdown the electric governor was unplugged.
No start.

Reconnected the electric governor.
Again, No start.

Removed the spare good ALDA, and it is now wrecked.
STOP, at this point since he has a complete spare injection pump available.

I will post links to the required procedures, shortly (quick parts run to MB).


.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:10 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,520
can't wait for pics of the pump.
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:53 AM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,371
Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkblotz View Post
I was driving around all day yesterday. The motor was performing well.

Got in to start it this morning glowed it then when it fired up it immediately revved real high and started to climb. I shut it off immediately and now it will no longer start. The starter will turn it over but it will not fire.

Last night I re-attached the oil pressure sender wire and put a new gasket on the side cover of the injection pump. But that was all I did.

I noticed that the glow plug light (since I put in this "new to me engine" stays on a lot longer than the old engine.

What would cause it to rev like that? and then not start back up?

Mark
Check your e-mail.

You will want to look at these pictures.
1992 300D Injection Pump Timing Photos by whunter | Photobucket

Here are the special tools:

Injection Pump Timing/Locking tool, it goes into the 17 MM port on the side of the Fuel Injection Pump Governor housing.
Mercedes Part# 601589052100

Special Sleeve to assemble Diesel pump
MB# 601 589 05 14 00

AB Light (RIV Method) does.
Diesel Timing Static Position Indicator, for injection pump static start of delivery measurement.
MB# 617 589 08 21 00
Application:
OM601, 602.91, .93x, .94x, .96x
OM603.91, .93x .96x, .97x
OM605, 606
OM617.93x .95x


Don't hesitate to call with further questions.

When the damaged injection pump has been removed, (at your leisure) I can walk you through opening the rear cover (internal damage) for pictures.

http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.merc/Dieseltiming%20MB.pdf

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/109276d1360517934-ip-injection-pump-timing-300d-2-5-603-603-0761.pdf

http://www.mbmaster.ru/SsangYongRexton/files/1f3_2.pdf

.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1983 300D
1984 190D

Last edited by whunter; 02-28-2013 at 03:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2013, 10:02 AM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
I am at the dealership (used to work here) they will swap the pumps for $500. It kills me not to do it myself but it is worth it for me to do it and have the timing done right.
I will update you on the progress. Said it will take 4 hours. They still have some old school techs working here.

Mark
__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-28-2013, 10:22 AM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,371
Cool

I was concerned that time was a serious factor for you.


.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:01 PM
Fattyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 544
Nowhere else could you get tech help like this with followup included.
Hats off to whunter
__________________
'70 F100 shortbed
'82 Diesel Westy
'83 Euro 300TD
Curtlo Viper
Yeti ARC
Surly long haul trucker
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:12 PM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
Amen to that. He was so helpful. Via phone we went through so many diagnostic scenarios. I really appreciate the time he took.

Mark
__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-02-2013, 07:24 AM
inkblotz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkeley Lake, GA
Posts: 193
Update: the dealership installed the new pump and has everything back together but it turns out the fuel restrictor valve (A 6010700146) on the block side of the pump appears to be bad (fuel is going back to the tank and not to the injectors). New valve to come in Monday so hopefully I will be back on the road after it is installed.

M
__________________
91 300GD SWB with transplanted 87 OM603 turbo motor
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:30 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,093
Yes Roy is one of our MercedesShop treasures!

Now that these cars are becoming aged, modified and ultra high mileage, we are beginning to see things happen that don't fit into previous syndromes.

Congrats to you and Roy for grabbing the Tiger by the tail and hanging on!

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page