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-   -   just ran into a snag 617 5-speed project. (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/335681-just-ran-into-snag-617-5-speed-project.html)

C.Doner 03-07-2013 05:08 PM

just ran into a snag 617 5-speed project.
 
I managed to pick up a 5 speed 717.400. It has considerable play in the input shaft. I got the the input bearing from the dealer and its at a good tranny place for service. I just talked to him and he says to get the input shaft out he has to pull it apart from behind. That means the transmission has to be disassembled.
I took the front cover off before bringing it in and removed a snap ring and below that was a large retainer clip. It was something i could definitely not get.
He can't either. Has anyone done this before. i know it is not common, but hopefully someone can help.

JB3 03-07-2013 05:21 PM

play in the input shaft is not all that uncommon depending on the type of bearings in the tranny. I had a 4-speed with a lot of play, and was worried enough I got another, which had the exact same play. If the 717.400 has standard roller bearings, play might be normal.

what kind of considerable play are you seeing?

C.Doner 03-07-2013 05:41 PM

not sure est. 2mm
 
I estimate about 2 mm. I remember my 4 speed having the same issue as well, and it runs fine. I was hoping to root out any issues with this one before installing. I may just be installing it and hoping for the best. I did just get the bearing though thinking it was like the other style and accessible from the front of the transmission. It was pricey. the transmission guy says its about 4 hours to get it in. it all has to come apart to get at that bearing,according to him.
Its a roller ball bearing, no taper. It cost me over 2 Benjamins. I could just keep it for another time i guess. I have no specs on the amount of play allowed. the haynes manual says .01 mm but that may in and out play i have only up and down.

weird beard 03-07-2013 08:23 PM

Remember that the input shaft is held in line by the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Dont mistake rocking up and down play in the input shaft for bearing play. Support it as best you can with both hands and lift it straight up and down. Dont rock it.

Mölyapina 03-07-2013 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner (Post 3110865)
I estimate about 2 mm. I remember my 4 speed having the same issue as well, and it runs fine. I was hoping to root out any issues with this one before installing. I may just be installing it and hoping for the best. I did just get the bearing though thinking it was like the other style and accessible from the front of the transmission. It was pricey. the transmission guy says its about 4 hours to get it in. it all has to come apart to get at that bearing,according to him.
Its a roller ball bearing, no taper. It cost me over 2 Benjamins. I could just keep it for another time i guess. I have no specs on the amount of play allowed. the haynes manual says .01 mm but that may in and out play i have only up and down.

From my Technical Data Passenger Cars -- Edition January 1980 (the official Mercedes-Benz data book from that time):

For the 716.XXX trannies (4-speeds)
Quote:

End play of drive shaft between radial ball bearing and front housing cover: 0.00-0.05

End play of main shaft between radial ball bearing and holding ring: 0.00

End play of countershaft measured at front transmission housing cover: 0.07-0.15
Does any of this help you?

--Jooseppi

NC-Diesel 03-07-2013 09:25 PM

I have the factory Service manual for the mercedes manuals for the 717 manaul transmissions 4 and 5 speed in pdf format. i just sent you a PM.

C.Doner 03-07-2013 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC-Diesel (Post 3110954)
I have the factory Service manual for the mercedes manuals for the 717 manaul transmissions 4 and 5 speed in pdf format. i just sent you a PM.

Sweet I think that will help.

C.Doner 03-08-2013 11:28 AM

bearing supplier
 
I was also wondering if anyone knew of parts for these. The dealer only has the roller bearings available. Some needle type are available but most needle bearings are NLA. I suppose one could have them made. If i were to tear this thing down I think it should get bearings at least. Or i could have it torn down and replace an a needed basis. Can you say Can Of Worms, but id say its worth it to rebuild it if needed. that was the intension. Its just a bit pricey for all the parts from MB. Plus many are NLA.

ChicagoJones 03-08-2013 11:49 AM

This thread might be helpful on a bearing upgrade I ran across few years ago. It is for the G-wagon version of the 717.4 Getrag.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/g-class/1245363-possible-fix-717-42-g-5-a.html

charmalu 03-08-2013 06:20 PM

I ran across the G-Wagon web site a few years back. the guy did have more info on the manual trans the G`s use. had a listing of different repair manuals. I don`t see it any more, but contacting Harold Pietschmann the owner of the site, he might help you out. there is a contact me in one of these links.

http://www.4x4abc.com/

http://4x4abc.com/Mercedes-Benz.G-Class.manuals/production.html

http://www.4x4abc.com/Mercedes-Benz.G-Class.manuals/


I was going to buy one of the manuals on the 5-spd gear box about 3 yrs ago, wish I did.


Have you contacted the Classic Center in Irvine, Ca. ?

Charlie

whunter 03-09-2013 01:34 AM

FYI
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner (Post 3110839)
I managed to pick up a 5 speed 717.400. It has considerable play in the input shaft. I got the the input bearing from the dealer and its at a good tranny place for service. I just talked to him and he says to get the input shaft out he has to pull it apart from behind. That means the transmission has to be disassembled.
I took the front cover off before bringing it in and removed a snap ring and below that was a large retainer clip. It was something i could definitely not get.
He can't either. Has anyone done this before. i know it is not common, but hopefully someone can help.

On the bearings..

All you need is ID, OD, width, and application (manual transmission).

Then call Industrial Products: Bearings, Material Handling| Applied.com for new bearings.

They have been around over 100 years = changed their name from Detroit ball bearings.
Welcome to Applied Industrial Technologies | Applied.com

I have been trying to stump them for 40 years. :D

.

DeliveryValve 03-09-2013 04:49 PM

I have been told by a few members here who own the 717.400 transmission that the side to side play is normal. I do however think the bearing upgrade to a non-stock type should be considered as to extend the life of these rare transmissions. Those 280GE/300GD fellas should know as they beat on those trans with their offroading.



.

C.Doner 03-10-2013 12:32 PM

its coming apart
 
This week. I ordered a 717.420 service manual from 4x4abc.com I looked at detail.ru part list and verified the 717.420 from the gwagon has the internals of the 717.400. there are many different versions of the 4 and 5 speed gearbox. 717.411 is completely different. there are similarities, but i'm sure specs and tolerances are not the same all parts are different. same with 4 and 5 speeds almost all parts are different. There is pretty much nothing interchangeable on different model gearboxes.

C.Doner 03-11-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter (Post 3111526)
On the bearings..

All you need is ID, OD, width, and application (manual transmission).

Then call Industrial Products: Bearings, Material Handling| Applied.com for new bearings.

They have been around over 100 years = changed their name from Detroit ball bearings.
Welcome to Applied Industrial Technologies | Applied.com

I have been trying to stump them for 40 years. :D

.

Thank you sir.

C.Doner 04-06-2014 04:23 PM

here is something from another thread that may be of use. Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Doner
?.....
On the input shaft for the 717.400 the new Input bearing did nothing to help the side to side wobble. That was pretty much a waste of $$$ as far as Im concerned. approx $200 for the bearing and $200 for the install. It was a gift price for the installation as well. The guy had to modify his puller to remove the bearing. He was slightly chapped seeming. He gave me a quote and had to stick to it, but was not happy about it. All in all, it was not even necessary. Its done now.
.....


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