Rod knock or nailing - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gatorblue92 · #16 03-24-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Please call me now if possible. phone: 248-850-7027

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I'm heading to bed right now. Ill give you a call tomorrow if its okay.

whunter · #17 03-24-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

I'm heading to bed right now. Ill give you a call tomorrow if its okay.

Talk to you tomorrow.

.

Webbervillecarnut · #18 03-24-2013, 09:28 PM

Just drive it

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

In the past week my 240D has developed a very bad sounding engine. I am trying to determine if it is a nailing injector or something worse. I can hear it very clearly inside the car while driving but the car sounds mostly normal at idle. The car has a known 136k miles and a good maintenance history but it did sit unused for about 5 years from 2001-2006. New to me injectors from a known good source. Oil analysis shows slightly elevated iron but very elevated copper.

Here is a video from under the hood.

March 22 part 3 - YouTube

And under the car.

March 22 part 4 - YouTube

Any thoughts?

whunter · #19 03-25-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

In the past week my 240D has developed a very bad sounding engine. I am trying to determine if it is a nailing injector or something worse. I can hear it very clearly inside the car while driving but the car sounds mostly normal at idle. The car has a known 136k miles and a good maintenance history but it did sit unused for about 5 years from 2001-2006. New to me injectors from a known good source. Oil analysis shows slightly elevated iron but very elevated copper.

Here is a video from under the hood.

March 22 part 3 - YouTube

And under the car.

March 22 part 4 - YouTube

Any thoughts?

As we discussed:
* Stop driving it.
* The only reason for highly elevated copper in the oil = bearing failure.
* If you stop driving it now, you may be able to replace one rod/main bearing through the oil pan.
* You are looking for galling - grooving on the crankshaft.
* Depositing on the crankshaft can frequently be chemically cleaned in place.

.

gatorblue92 · #20 03-25-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

As we discussed:
* Stop driving it.
* The only reason for highly elevated copper in the oil = bearing failure.
* If you stop driving it now, you may be able to replace one rod/main bearing through the oil pan.
* You are looking for galling - grooving on the crankshaft.
* Depositing on the crankshaft can frequently be chemically cleaned in place.

.

Car is parked and doesn't need to move for awhile. It may be a few weeks before I have time to tear into it but I will post the results when I do. Thanks again for the help!

whunter · #21 03-25-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

Car is parked and doesn't need to move for awhile. It may be a few weeks before I have time to tear into it but I will post the results when I do. Thanks again for the help!

It was great talking with you.

.

gatorblue92 · #22 03-27-2013, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

As we discussed:
* Stop driving it.
* The only reason for highly elevated copper in the oil = bearing failure.
* If you stop driving it now, you may be able to replace one rod/main bearing through the oil pan.
* You are looking for galling - grooving on the crankshaft.
* Depositing on the crankshaft can frequently be chemically cleaned in place.

.

This might be a dumb question but the main is the bearing at the front of the engine and then there is a bearing on each rod as well? If I do need to replace the first bearing how do I access the top half? Depending on how things shake out this weekend with other house projects I may have time to dig into this on Saturday.

WINGAS · #23 03-27-2013, 09:43 PM

Good call. I would think the oil filter would have shiny metal in it as well, assuming the copper is the backing for the actual bearing material. Maybe big block chevs are different, but they do deposit "tinseltown" flakes in the oil filter before they unarse. Anyway, Good luck and git er done!

barry12345 · #24 03-27-2013, 10:01 PM

Make sure to get some plastigauge in case the bearing still looks good. You simply put it in place between the bearing and crank journal and compare it to a chart on the package that gives you the number of thousands of an inch its squeezed width represents. The width will result from installing and tightening down the bottom rod cap.

The plastigauge is really cheap at an auto parts store. You will handle the top half of a rod bearing insert replacement easy enough not to be overconcerned about it if required.

whunter · #25 03-27-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

This might be a dumb question but the main is the bearing at the front of the engine and then there is a bearing on each rod as well? If I do need to replace the first bearing how do I access the top half? Depending on how things shake out this weekend with other house projects I may have time to dig into this on Saturday.

I think these will answer your question, and a few you have not asked yet.

OM616 rebuilds

https://www.google.com/search?q=om616+crankshaft&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US

fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=lahTUev0F-aVyAGgkYCICw&biw=1280&bih=839&sei=l6hTUf3zK8HXygHcsYGYCg

The World's Best Photos of om616 - Flickr Hive Mind

Rebuilding a Mercedes-Benz OM616 engine

616 rebuild options
616 rebuild options

Setting injection pump timing after rebuild OM616
Setting injection pump timing after rebuild OM616

om616.912 rebuild dillemas
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/333921-om616-912-rebuild-dillemas.html

new engine build 616 (not stock)
616 rebuild options

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barry12345 · #26 03-28-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorblue92

This might be a dumb question but the main is the bearing at the front of the engine and then there is a bearing on each rod as well? If I do need to replace the first bearing how do I access the top half? Depending on how things shake out this weekend with other house projects I may have time to dig into this on Saturday.

My appologies as mentally I felt it was hopefully going to be the first rod bearing that was getting the wear. . The top part of the first main bearing is somewhat harder to deal with. Strange how the mind gets hung up sometimes.

Stretch · #27 03-28-2013, 11:54 AM

Are we all sure that high copper content does in fact mean crank bearings?

I would suspect something like intermediate shaft bearings / bushings oil pump bearings / bushings => those are at least copper in colour => main bearings are dull grey.

Where can we find some specifications on what's what? (Before upper oil pans get removed)

gatorblue92 · #28 04-04-2013, 04:03 PM

I got a box of goodies today for both cars including a new pan gasket for the 240D. I should tear into it either tomorrow or Saturday and see what I see.

gatorblue92 · #29 04-06-2013, 10:21 AM

Ok pulled the pan off and it looked very clean... nothing unusual in the pan i.e. metal shavings ect.

Pulled off the first rod bearing cap and it looks new.

I'm at a loss but it does appear that I either do not have internal engine issues or it is not the #1 and its time for the engine to come out.

The car was running perfectly other than the noise so I'm wondering if I should just button it back up and drive it or not. If I do need a new engine or major engine work I think that I will source and swap in an OM 617A with a manual transmission. I have a sample of the oil to send off to blackstone but there is only about 500-1000 miles on the oil.

Stretch · #30 04-06-2013, 12:07 PM

Take off the vacuum pump and check that intermediate shaft bearing?

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