I am no alignment expert, but my first reaction would be to put in the same values as the factory calls for providing that were possible with the adjustment available.

Its not rocket science. A degree or two of camber here or there will not make much difference in feel I don't think but the wrong caster will definitely be noticeable. I had a fellow align one of my two 240Ds wrong once and it really killed the straight line stability.

I can tell you that the toe can be off a lot before you start to notice it but with a lot of toe out the car will dart left and right with irregularities in the road as one side or the other gets grip and tries to pull you in the ditch or over center. I have driven my Miata with about 3/8" toe out for autocross and its quite a handful on the street with that much. I generally would adjust it back each weekend but sometimes I would get lazy. It'll keep you awake for sure, especially on the highway.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Keep you awake is nicely put...

All wagons are with sls here. At least I never heard of wagons without from the factory. I can be wrong. All of my four wagons were with sls.

To make it more complicated Sev, my car is with standard 15" rims due to the 100kg extra load capacity.
The rear sway bar was surpisingly enough 15mm and the turbodieselīs was 17mm. So I swapped them. But the springs were softer than the TDT`s, what about that?
Well, I guess I am not the only one changing out stuff.

I now read somewhere the front stab. bar is 26mm, a bit larger than the NA dieselīs. If so, that will go in too.
There was too much roll for my kinda use. It is for hauling tools and heavy things and traveling.

Also, I could have written it more precise; I took the springs from my turbodiesel parts car...rather than leaving open the interpretation that I meant springs specifically for a turbodiesel...

It is possible the caster is off, that would be wonderful. Than it is a piece of cake to remedy.

Thanks people.

Jan.

Allrighty,

I called the shop and talked to the guy who did the alignment.
He used the W123 parameters on the computer. Good.

His take on the wheels not returning is that the steering box is too tight.
He says it causes instability.
My question is, whether that also could be the reason for the sensitivity for puddles? I canīt see that, but my experience is limited.

The remedy would be loosening the box, gaining stability but at the same time getting more play. Shi-hut, what a choice.

Any comments on this?

I have an idea what I want to try out, in this order:

1-Loosening the steering box. I would reckon it to be smart, when loosening the screw, counting the turns. Than it will be possible to go back. Maybe taking quarter or halv turns at a time and testing the car in between.

2-Installing the HD Bilstein shocks.

3-Lowering the car (it is 1 1/2" above standard hight now) back down an inch or so.
How will this affect the stability/set up of the wheels? And do I need a new adjustment after that? I will buy new winter tires for next season anyway so I donīt mind testing the car for a while like that. nThe season is slowly comming to an end, one more month at least.

4-buy a real car

Thanks for you help,

Jan.

PS:
I am looking for a pre-1984 diesel tachometer! The one using the pulse generator from the crankshaft. Anyone?

The box being too tight will definately make it feel dodgey. Puddle sensitivity...I'm not sure. Loosten it a quarter turn and try that. Remember that anticlockwise tightens it and clockwise loostens it (the opposite of most steering boxes).

You should be able to get it stable without lowering it if it is aligned appropriately.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I don't recommend playing about with the adjustment screw on these steering boxes. In my experience it is very difficult not to loose your place =>

What a feeling it will be! A properly adjusted W123 / W116 / W126 power steering box

If you want to check the functionality of the power steering box do the test as per the FSM (chapter info posted previously)


Thinking about steering boxes - have you checked to see if you have the correct Pitman arm for your steering box?


Oh and by the way Europe was one of the places in the world that did indeed get W123 wagons with out SLS. Most had SLS and I have no knowledge of what specifcally went to Norway but many lower end models (such as the 2 litre petrol driven ones) were factory fitted with out SLS.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Yeah Stretch,

I am quite apprehensive about beginning to fiddle with the adjustment...since it is a professionally rebuilt one from the US. I forgot what company did it. I can expect they did the adjustment right? for about 400-something bøx...
They "sealed" the nuts all around with a dot of white laquer/paint, as in; "Touch this mf and you void any right to complain".

Maybe good you mention this. Or, not..... I will see if I missed some threads on the webs about this before getting out the tools.

Do you think it is a bad thing, meaning non-reversable, to test a 1/4-1/2 turn on the adjustment? Hmm re-reading your monster thread here . Nice work.===> Yeah, One has to back up and work all the way up to the critical point. So turning the same amount back and forth doesnīt get you to the same spot. Damn. Or; does that really matter?

Hmm, correct pitman arm? Never thought of that the one on my car could be the wrong type... This rabbit hole goes deeper than I assumed... I am wondering about the differences then.

More digging to do.. After doing the front end and subframe I am now entering the next level of refinement?
You know, that is why I abandoned other cars altogether, couldnīt be bothered to use time and money on them anymore.
Pitless bottom.....

thanks,

Jan.

The adjustment is not rocket science. Loosten the lock nut 19mm IIRC, and then move the adjusting screw (6mm allen?) counterclockwise to tighten, clockwise to loosten. If it gets tighter, go back the 1/4 turn you did and go the other direction.

The only time I have had trouble is with a rebuilt box, which took months to smooth out. Since then I have simply adjusted them even if over 300,000 miles on them.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Can you expect that someone else has done the job right? Well you'd hope so wouldn't you...

...there's no harm in checking - do the test as per the FSM. If there's something wrong then you can cross that bridge (of adjustment) when you get there.

The problem you have is that you might be able to complain but it would cost you more to send it back to the US than it would to send it to me to have it adjusted!

I say don't do it - Tom says do it!

Take your pick!

If you look in the FSM there's a chapter on removal and refitting the steering box. There's a lot of fuss about having the right Pitman arm for your steering box - it is a simple check. (probably a waste of your time - but it'll take about 10 mins and it is something ticked off the list)

Don't give up once you've done all the work and it works you'll be chuffed.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Hei,

I found my papers about the Steering housing/box.
It is from C&M Hydraulics.

C & M-Hydraulics for Mercedes BMW Porsche Audi VW Saab Volvo Mini :: epsparts.com - European Parts Specialists, Ltd.

Still digging and checking....

I would like to try to find a solution before adjusting. Maybe also contact C&M and see if they have something useful to say. Thereīs this number on the paper.

Thanks!

Jan.

I'll say it one more time - then I'm done - there's no point adjusting the steering box if it passes the test in chapter 46-120

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I say adjust it. It's easy enough. Do the FSM test first though.

__________________
1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light

No worries Stretch, I will do the test Thanks for the reminder.

I put the HD shocks in place and lifted the ass of the car to match the front. Did some fiddling with the sls valve since I noticed it wouldnīt rise naturally.
All air is out behind the valve now and the stance of the car is more balanced. Stays there too. Great.

I will do the testing this weekend and some driving to see what happens. A 250 km drive coming on monday.

Thanks,

Jan.

C&M rebuild boxes very nicely and when a MB box is set correct you will have a very slight preload in the centre position. Which is what is being taken as too tight.

When the alignment was done were the wheels pushed apart from the centre, a peron under the car can do it and get another to check the toe reading. In the US its the most common fault area.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

You've changed nearly everything - but still have the same tyres. Tyres wear according to the setup of the car. When you change the car setup, or move the tyres around on the car, it will drive in a strange way till the tyres begin to adopt the new wear pattern

I took a set of tyres off a W124 wagon yesterday. The fronts were worn conically, so much so that it was very obvious when compared to a rear tyre. That tyre will pull in one direction for ever more

Obviously a W123 setup is very different to that of a W124, but on a W124 I'd be looking at worn tyres, worn wishbone bushes, worn steering idler / idler bushes (that's a cheap fix!) and incorrect alignment. I don't know how much of this will transfer to the W123...

Nick Froome
the independent Mercedes Estate specialists

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

Yes, I asked in advance if he had the spreader tool. The place is an old MB specialist shop. His boss was a connaisseur, it is said at the MB club here.

Jan