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  #16  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:10 PM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
Maaybe 50 bucks is do-able for new clutch material... then would the flywheel necessarily need to be surfaced? This is a good idea for my budget,at present. I'll try to find such a place in the nearby city. Thanks.

I quickly looked it over for the usual euro goodies and it still has the manual climate controls and window cranks that work very well. Euro-Bumpers are kind of rusty in spots and missing the rubber accesories that wrap around the back, if there is even suppossed to be any. The carpets and seats are in surprisingly good shape considering how rusty the floor boards are...Quite a bit of body panel rust and someones prev. attempt at body filler that is showing it's exposure to the elements up here.

Maybe what is left after the powertrain swap, could be used to resurrect the 79 300d that has been neglected and robbed of odds and ends, since my station wagon obsession took over.. I could use those manual climate controls and ditch the evil servo that is in it, although the servo looks to have been replaced recently with a brand new dealer servo (still has the stickers).

This euro car will likely if not certainly never see the road again...unfortunately, it is too far gone with rusty floors and what-not...its a stripper!

I was pleased to finally see a euro m-pump in person for the first time, although I am not sure if that would be better or even usable in these turbo motors I have. Would the euro pump give me more power or is that strictly a desirable piece to have if sending it out overseas for bigger
elements?

That's really all I have to say about this subject as if it was'nt longwinded already. I think I have asked all the questions and bragged about it enough, now, and will get back to it with pictures when the car gets here. I am sure thankful for the bit of luck in finding one of these rare birds up here. In my area of Canada they are'nt plentiful in the North American version, let alone a 4 sp. grey market Euro unit from the fadderland.

The ad just said three Mercedes for sale, I had to grill the guy to find out what he had, I guess it does'nt hurt to follow up on ads sometimes. Nice guy too, his whole family helped us load it. His father snowblowed the car out a week prior to us coming with a broken ankle. Thanks Gramps.

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  #17  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:33 PM
winmutt's Avatar
85 300D 4spd+tow+h4
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Atl Gawga
Posts: 9,332
Always resruface flywheel and clutch mounting.

38lb flywheel is overrated. If you want a real fw get the GD one, otherwise the 240D works just fine.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2013, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ooltewah, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macdoe View Post
Maaybe 50 bucks is do-able for new clutch material... then would the flywheel necessarily need to be surfaced?
I agree with Winmutt that the flywheel and pressure plate should be resurfaced if possible. In my experience, one can decipher the current wear patterns on a used flywheel and have a pretty good idea if its flat. If its not flat, definately have it machined flat even if that means waiting to reinstall untill the funds become available. If it is flat, then resurface it yourself to remove the glazing. I've had success using a belt sander with around a 100 grit belt. I've heard of some folks using scotch brite pads on a die grinder. Either way you want to remove that glazing IMHO.
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  #19  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:23 AM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
We finally got the car and the trans and motor were pulled. I can see now that the transmission is likely what parked this car for so long. I have all the correct parts to swap to my wagon, but the trans does'nt look good at all. I coul not find a number on the case but I did find a small crack or gouge in the tailshaft section of the transmission case.

When we went to drain it...I found that there was no fluid in it!... (uh oh). The gouge is low on the case so I guess all the oil leaked out already.....The drain plug had what appeared to be sandy and rust colored particles stuck to the drain plug. I had imagined them to be some sort of fibrous material like a timing chain guide lining. Small pieces of metal flecks, but not much.

I wonder if the synchros are made of some type of material other than metal?
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:33 AM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
Oh yeah, forgot to mention the front shaft is pretty sloppy. not much pride left in this deal. I need to find out how to rebuild one of these. According to the vin. The car has a 716005 transmission. The bell housing comes off and looks like it is iron.
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  #21  
Old 08-21-2013, 03:14 AM
ruchase's Avatar
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Location: La La Land, the Irish Riviera (MA) and NoVA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macdoe View Post
Oh yeah, forgot to mention the front shaft is pretty sloppy. not much pride left in this deal. I need to find out how to rebuild one of these. According to the vin. The car has a 716005 transmission. The bell housing comes off and looks like it is iron.
I would think its probably cheaper to just source another used 240d transmission rather than try and rebuild this one. Not to mention the time involved and expertise to rebuild the M/T. Even with that you'll still make out with all the other extra parts if you decide to sell unused items.
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2013, 07:28 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 36,618
Synchros are metal.....steel or brass. The input shaft should have some play in it. Before giving up on it I'd pull the side cover and have a tranny expert look at it if it is not obviously shot. I agree a good used one makes sense.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2013, 02:48 PM
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Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
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That is too dang bad about your newly anticipated project not being what you hoped it to be. Happens sometimes.

The Iron Box 4-spd transmission was used up to 1980 in the 240D. Then from 81 - 83 MB used an all one piece Aluminum case transmission. probably for the weight savings and production costs.
Either of these trans will work for your swap if you can source another one.

I believe the front section of the drive line will just swap in and be the proper length. Iam not sure, but I believe the rear section on the 300D, 300TD and 240D are the same length also.
For sure keep the front section.

If the Transmission is junk, keep the detachable Bell Housing, there is always some looking for one to modify for another type of vehicle eng swap. probably worth $75 or so.

Salvage everything from the euro you can. you can swap in the manual climate control assembly from under the dash and eliminate the Evil Servo. The manual window winders are becoming very rare too.

The M-Pump will work on a NA engine but for the turbo engine, it will work, but you will have a diminished lack of power unless you have it beefed up with the larger elements. = $$$$, big $$$$

Probably someone on www.superturbo.com that would want the pump. = more $$$$ for your project.

Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2013, 07:45 AM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
Thanks, I think this trans might be o.k. We took it apart and one of the countershaft bearings was obliterated. The bearing at the other end of the same shaft was seized. The one that exploded tossed 3 of the ball bearings out the aluminum tailshaft piece and left a hole. We got new 2 new bearings and will try to clean up and weld a patch on the tailshaft to close it up. Been busy cleaning all the bits of exploded bearing out of the case. I am surprised at how good this thing looked inside considering there was no oil in it. Has brass synchros and they look great. The sandy colored stuff was melted plastic bearing cage from the exploded bearing. The guy must have quit driving this as soon as it happened.
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:52 PM
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Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
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I just did this swap (or maybe more accurately I AM DOING this swap). I have the aluminum case trans from an '84 240D.

Use pilot bearing SKF pn. 6202-2RSJ. Your local bearing supplier will have it for a couple of $$ (I paid about $4) as opposed to the M-B bearing which is THE SAME bearing in a different box - and you'll have to wait for it. My experience was that the pilot bearing bore in the crank is 0.007" too small. You can freeze the bearing and cram it in there but when everything comes up to temp the bearing won't rotate freely as the outer race is squeezed into the center. I used a die grinder and a Tootsie roll abrasive and carefully worked the crank hole to size. Pressed fit should be about 0.002" (sorry, I don't have a Metric brain). Start by taking careful measurements of the bearing OD and the crank bore ID as yours may be different.

Another tip - the trans input shaft fits TIGHTLY into bearing ID. The tailshaft wouldn't turn freely by hand following the installation. After a great deal of fooling around I decided to thump the tailshaft with a soft hammer to drive the input shaft into the pilot bearing. Problem solved!

Remember to keep the shifter and linkage. You may want to save the floor hump from the donor car and weld it into the wagon but maybe in a M-B to M-B swap everything fits. In my case it's a moot point. Also order up fresh shifter bushings.

Good luck on this - it's pretty easy, really.

Dan
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2013, 02:00 PM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
This one is not entirely aluminum. It has the main case made of cast iron and an aluminum bellhousing and a short aluminum tailshaft piece. I am not sure what model transmission we have here. I looked up the vin # and this car has some strange extras. It has had a br140 option put on it has the letters MY/95. According to the vin this is suppossed to be a 716 005 trans, but there are no numbers stamped on the case. I found a pad cast into the trans that looks like the spot for a part # to have been stamped but there is no number stamped there? I think they forgot to stamp this one. It looks like it has a high slope to the case. Anyone venture to guess what I have here based on the description? I think this is an 84 year 300d but it sounds like there is suppossed to be an all aluminum case trans in here based on the year of the car??

Last edited by macdoe; 08-27-2013 at 12:41 AM.
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2013, 02:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
Posts: 2,509
Sounds like you have the earlier trans. The aluminum case trans like mine has an integral bellhousing. The following thread has pics of my '84 trans for reference: clutch problem 240D

BTW - the iron case trans is supposed to be stronger though both are pretty tough. As I don't do dragstrip-type starts with mine I expect it to live even behind the hoped-for 300ish HP.

Dan
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  #28  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:30 AM
macdoe
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 759
I wonder if the input shaft diameters are the same...in other words...can I use that part number that you gave for the pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft for your all aluminum transmission for this iron case trans. are the input shafts that go into the end of the crankshaft using the same size bearing between all the manual trans options?
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  #29  
Old 08-26-2013, 10:18 AM
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Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
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I don't know that for sure. But if you take the measurements of the shaft OD and the crank hole ID to the bearing supplier they can tell you. I wrecked a couple of the bearings as I figured out why I was having trouble getting mine in place and 1 may be good enough to get some measurements from - I'll check when I go out to the shop and post them here.

Dan
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  #30  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,585
Dan,

Isn`t the engine you used for your Hot Rod swap an 85 engine? If so, then the 85 617.952 engine has a 34mm Crank hole and all other year 617`s use a 35mm Crank hole. so the stock Pilot bearing is tight for the 85 engine, and extra work will be required to modify the bearing, or use a Bushing.

The end of the input shaft for either the iron Box trans and the all one piece aluminum case trans is the same diameter.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
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