I need some help, i have a 85 300td that will not start/ run. it has been sitting for a few months and last week it cranked up with out any problems... today it will turn over but will not fire...

-it has air, the filter has been temporarily removed to check for blockage.
-the engine will turn over
-the glow plugs will cycle and they are getting a full 12v.
-i have replaced the primer pump with the new "black top" type
-all filters are new and fresh diesel in the tank.


After a few hours of messing with things i decided to crack one of the lines from the ip to the injectors at the injector and turn the engine over, diesel squirted out...

as a last ditch effort i pulled the return line from the injectors where it goes back into the filter. i left that line open and plugged the barb fitting on the filter with a spare piece of tubing, pumped the primer pump and turned the engine over and nothing is coming out of the return line from the injectors... im not sure what this means but im running out of ideas...

air leak? from where?

thanks for the help guys, if pictures are necessary i'll post them up

I have not tested this theory, but I would suspect that on slow cranking you would see very little if anything out of the return line. OK, How is your cranking speed. Do you have a fully charged battery. Will the battery take and hold a full charge. Can you come up with another battery and cables to boost it more. Got to have cranking speed with a difficult to start engine. You put on a new primer pump. That's good. Did you pump it up so that you hear a squeal/squeal in the filters. Got to pump it up hard. It was running last week - so it should run now. Possibly valve adjustment will help a lot, but it should start now. Glo plugs. They are getting 12 volts - but are they getting hot? There is a difference, believe me! They have to get red hot and pretty fast. Here is what I would do. Really charge that battery. If you have a charger, keep it in the battery while trying to start the car. Make sure the fuel system is pumped up hard. Glow the plugs for 45 seconds, on/off the switch and give them another 45, then on/off switch and start cranking. Give it a good crank. The higher the charge on the battery, the easier it is on the starter. If the starter is cranking it good and fast, leave it crank - especially if it starts to fire on one or two holes - keep it cranking until it runs good. It will probably smoke and stink, fart and clatter, but keep it running, and don't let go of the starter until it runs well. Starters don't like too much rough treatment, but they'll live with it.

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Junqueyardjim
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1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

When you installed the new "secondary filter", the big filter, did you fill it with fuel? If you didn't, you should have, probably would pay dividends to do it right now.

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

Check the resistance on your glow plugs.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Check for heat on the glow pugs. I have seen GPs give a resistance reading, but fail as soon as the start to warm up. Also, when was the last valve timing performed?

These are the first two things to check.

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thanks for the info, i'll check the resistance of the plugs and see what that looks like, does anyone know what the reading should be off the top of their head?

the secondary filter was filled with gas so i suspect that is not the problem. I have been pressing down on the primer pump for hours it seems and it will get firm but not as hard to push as my other 300td...

I'll try and new battery today and see if that helps any, i have had it hooked up to the charger the entire time and it seems to help keep the engine spinning but maybe the battery is just weak.

I adjusted the valves a few weeks ago, they should be in good shape.

i suspect that the problem is fuel related, seeing that i can not get the primer pump to get super firm but im not sure where to check for a leak or problem with the system, im sure that it is moving fuel (i can see in the clear primary filter) just not sure why it would not build pressure?

thanks guys!

What, if any, are the differences between "cranking up" and "turning over but not firing"? Were you able to run the motor first time through?

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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

cranking up = cranking and running. turning over = engine turns over but will not fire/ run.

the first time trough the engine turned over several time, fired, and ran. Now it will turn over, but will not fire.

Fuel + Air + Compression = Run

If you truely have the first two then i would suspect as others have: faulty GPs
slow crankspeed.

Disclaimer: I am about 90% sure I remember this correctly.

To test your glow plugs, run power to a plug from your battery. The plug should glow red-hot within a few seconds or so. If it can't do that (and your battery is good), then the plug needs to go.

Make sure to test your battery also; you can bring it to Autozone and they will test it for free. Where are you located?

__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

The best (easiest) way (without removing them) I have found to check glow plugs is to do the following:
Remove the glow plug wire harness from the glow plug relay. Take a jumper wire or clip lead and connect one end to +12v. Take the other end and momentarily touch it to each terminal on the harness plug. If you see a spark, the glow plug is good. No spark means the plug is bad. You could also touch the lead on the wiring connection directly on the glow plug, but you risk touching the bare end of the wire on a grounded part of the engine while doing so. The ohms test is not as definitive as this one.

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All Diesel Fleet
1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL
2005 E320 CDI (daily)

LOTS of parts for sale!


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1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This!
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Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11):
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Thanks for the input, I'll test the plugs this afternoon and then go from there.

The battery is good, I have a tester (and it's new.) I drained out the fuel and got (another) fresh batch of diesel. I have cracked the lines a bit at the injector to see if its getting fuel and when you turn the engine over it will squirt some out.

Is there anything else that could keep it from firing? As In a bad cut off switch on the ip or.... Any way to test this?

I guess I just don't understand why it hasn't fired of even once after turning the engine over for so long. my other 300td will at least sputter on a cold morning with out letting g the glow plugs cycle....

Thanks guys!

edit...


on my running 300td i was able to get spark when i touched a hot 12v wire to the plug... on the non running car there was no spark. on my way to pick up new plugs... we will see.

thanks for the help, i'll keep you posted.

Tired starter + bad plugs? Does it sound like it's cranking over any slower than your other 'TD?

__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

glow plugs fixed it... swapped them out and it fired up like a champ on the first try!

thanks for the help guys, i really appreciate it!!!