Nightmare - sorry to hear about that.

If you've gotten to the stage where you are really pissed off you might want to make your own estimations (this probably isn't as good as someone who is competent with the right equipment but it will give you an idea)

How I adjusted the toe in / out, camber and caster on my W123 300D

Post #4 and post #5 might help - plumb bob and chalk time!

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

The body shop guys usually spend north of 20k for those frame machines ,anytime something is loaded onto it ,their trying to exsponge the reason for buying such an expensive piece of equipment and warrant the cost of the machine.It is a vital tool in any bodyshops arsenal of equipment ,most insurance companies require a certifide shop with such experience to stage repairs before work can begin .In understanding why theirs such cost you have to see it from the inside out ,your not going to get cheap when these guys start turning wrenches .I would have a alignment shop look at it then take measurements,you have the answers then ,no parts just time for the auto shop to fill in the details.In this you can possible stage a repair with grease monkeys , crow bars and torches .Your savings will depend on how much you can bear them tearing and repairing.

So, because tools cost money and running a business costs money.(anyone reading this is surprised?)..in your opinion that justifies lying to customers? Really? You might want to read up on what it takes to get repeat customers and word of mouth referrals. This shop owner doesn't know what you don't know. Plus, the dozen illegal workers there don't become professionals just because they are wearing a uniform.

Unless there is a shop in your area not known for scalping you may be beat. Once the car was set up they should have just pulled it. You are just being worked I think. All body shops today have pulling jigs and tables. You could not preform at a reasonable level without them.

The place I use is 175.00 for setup and usually little more for what is required. I took in a car even with the roof crinkled total bill was still only about 350.00 to pull that one back into shape. I also suspect the star on the hood might have motivated them somewhat.

Really complex issues will be more. Our large shop in town is hopeless. Nothing under 6k interests them. I take the fender and other damaged metal off unless it is required to pull the car back into shape remaining on.

There is excess greed out there in many areas. Friday I paid far more than both quoted and fair in my opinion for a piece of custom railing I had fabricated on a large shaper. I will not use that facility again nor ever recommend it.. The finished part was not even sanded out and that is usually part of the job. Even shaper burns present from feeding the hardwood stock too slow. It pisses me off but I am seldom caught in these situations moderates it somewhat.

There are those on this list, and others, whom feel businesses make huge money by simply by overcharging. These people are easily identified when they add an " s " to dealer, these people also have never run a real business. ( This is a general statement and not directed at you. )

Lying to customers isn't acceptable but there are some fine points to your 2 hours to setup estimate. Did they tell you it would take 2 hours of hands on labor or that the measuring would cost 2 hours x hourly shop labor rate?

Some shop jobs are worth more in terms of $, a guy bolting on a fender using his own tools costs the shop less than the same guy using a shop owned frame machine. So, if a car goes on the rack it is billed at a higher rate. It does not matter how long the job took rather that a job is worth X.

Another example would be someone that has special tools to change a wheel bearing or suspension bushing without removing major parts. Should a shop invest extra $ in a special tool to cut repair time from 2 hours to 30 min and then charge the customer 30 min?

The off the street customer represents a small portion of a body shops business. Most of it comes from insurance companies / car lots. Some shops won't work on older cars or rust repairs due to poor profit, paint matching issues, excessive customer expectations of low cost / high quality.

Don't mistaken poor marketing , business sense or lack of knowledge for an outright effort to provide poor service at high cost.

I agree with you. The other thing that got to me was that he ssaid that his rack did not tell how far out the pivot points were and they just yanked on it and checked with the other undamaged side to match the measurements. Fair enough but if you can't be reasonably accurate with a quote...Don't quote a price. I would have been okay with paying...let's say 10%-15% more than the quote....not happy but that would seem reasonable to me.

I think you need to find a more eager to get business body shop. This one sounds a bit lazy.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

Found a better shop and got the frame pulled. No hassle, No BS, drives great.

What did it cost? Any additional feedback?

$420 and the guy said that it wasn't very bad at all. Took 2 hours total. I need a new rt outer tie rod, both boots are cracked so I will have to have it aligned again which is fine by me but till the part comes in I am on the road. $1700+ estimate from BS artist vs $420. I even told him what other shop wanted and he just laughed & said "not for a job this easy". Told me that other shop is known for gouging which is fine cause that gets him lots of work. It literally took less than 10 min of pulling with the rest checking and re checking all the measurements. With new struts and ball joints it feels way better than before.

Thanks for the info..and the price was right on.

We had a general discussion today about being ripped off. It happens to everyone and the best hope is to reduce it to less than average. To do this I find it takes some effort and thought.

A large car dealership is a good example. The money to sustain it must come from the customer. Above and beyond reasonable and equitable pricing. .Every service customer that enters must be an excess profit centre. Or they could not keep the doors open.

Most are that inefficient but cannot see it themselves. They expect the customers to make up for their shortcomings as a right of passage.

The problem lies with a poor educational system where because the owners have some money they feel entitled or are just plain stupid. You should be smarter when being the owner of an enterprise than is typical in north America.

What saves most of them is we have a large percentage of the population that seem totally unaware of what is going on.

As for those that think these operational patterns have to be they are wrong. I always think of the customer and am just smart enough to make it work. The money flows from my efforts to rationalize the overhead and operation rather than gouging the customers. Call it being efficient if you will. Both the company and the customer directly benefit.

I will be participating in setting up another smaller venture again for the benefit of others. The venture will also make a decent return. They always have in my hands.

The question is can I pass along the skills that make it go as I will not be involved on a day to day basis after the startup. Customers must be your friends and trust you to operate in their interests as well as your own.

There is a sickness out there of some magnitude. I have even salvaged smaller companies and made them both viable and solvent again. Only to leave and have their owners backslide. They just do not really comprehend what they are doing.

Most cannot even visualize properly or perhaps they never would have gotten into the messes they do.

I was kind of surprised how many unsolicited offers of financial involvement were offered for a piece of this new projected startup.. We will take none of them.

What is saving things in my opinion is that there are still enough people out there in business that could not sleep nights if they ripped off their customers. The troubling issue is that by percentage they have been and are continuing to shrink over time.

Well perhaps you're willing to recommend this bloke (as he wasn't a dick head) here?

Good MB Shops - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Yeah, I asked him if he would mind if I gave his shop name on the Mercedes forum. He said "Nah, thanks but I'm swamped as you can see". Gotta respect his wishes, he's in the phone directory.