well... I don't know about that! I would happily buy a cold fusion powered car no matter the brand! heck, I'd even buy a fiat if it was cold fusion powered!

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Amen to torque! Over the weekend I was driving a rented Focus with the Zetec 1.6 non-turbo gas engine and a five-speed trans (this was in England). It had so little torque that it couldn't pull hills in either top gear or fourth gear. Multiple downshifts were required, and I was still annoying traffic behind me.

Haven't DPFs been common in Europe since the middle 2000s? I can't get a good sense of when their emissions standards tightened up to the point they were required. As a frequent traveler to Europe for the last decade or two, I can tell you that big cities such as London or Paris used to smell of diesel exhaust all day long. That is no longer the case. Whatever they are doing over there has cleaned up the air in a very noticeable way.

I find it unfortunate that there is so much concern over the potential cost and reliability issues of these modern cars, but no one seems to attach any value to the lower emissions, cleaner air, and better health that result.

Thanks for that input!

I think a lot of folks fear change as it means they'll have to adapt. They don't seem to be comforted just because the change is for a reason. I think I mentioned this before, but anyone who is unwilling to live with these changes needs to visit Mexico City. Geographically it's much like LA or Phoenix (it sits in a bowl) but so far is without much in the line of emissions regulations like we have in the US and Europe. I haven't personally made the trip but they tell me it'll make a believer out of you.

EDIT: And yes, Europe has had forms of DPF/NoX systems for a number of years now. One of my favorite stories is the German couple who made a death pact and decided to sit in their running Renault Diesel in their locked garage. They were found in the morning with the Renault out of fuel and they were perfectly healthy. Evidently they had a nice nap, though. Can't even kill yourself these days!

Dan

The other side of thinking is that when a few million people gather together in less than 20 square miles and all dive a car, one can expect a smog problem. If people want to live on top of each other and drive cars, they should expect to smell some exhaust.

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1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge

617-like expectations out of a VW are ridiculous at best. (No disrespect intended).

Our '05 Passat TDI has 130k on it and the engine is starting to feel a little long in the tooth. We had the BSM module updated at 100k but I think the previous owner's 60k with questionable oils may have set a stage for bad results. I've yet to pull the valve cover and inspect the cam for wear.

It still gets 30-32mpg on the highway and 27-28 around town. But even with clean filters and no codes, it stumbles on shifts... Not to mention the interior is starting to go. The door panel upholstery went from sagging to falling out.

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'85 300TD "Puff The Magic Wagon" - Rolling Resto
'19 Mazda CX-9 Signature - Wife's sled
'21 Morgan 3-Wheeler P101 Edition
'95 E300d - SOLD
'84 300TD "Brown Betty" - Miss this one
'81 240D "China Baby" - Farm grocery getter

That's a great way to ash up the DPF

-J

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1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

I love VWs. I think you'll do alright with the jetta. Passats are what seem to be trouble. VW 4 cylinder diesels are probably some of best built at least they have been for oh more than 30 years. Although it is brand new, the engine is probably more or less the same since they switched to common rail in 2006 and they've cranked out 4 generations of great 4 cylinders that I have driven in the last 30 years. Maybe with the exception of the weak crankshaft in the 2.0 L pd tdi in 2005 passat wagons.

That common rail looks the same as the previous ALH engines with just a different injection system. My friend has a 2006 one and it has like 80,000 on it and is awesome. I am a huge fan of VW 4 cylinder diesels and our family has been driving them for like 15 years. It just stinks the fuel economy has deteriorated starting in 1999 with the ALH. The Jetta bodies hold up pretty good -- not a W210 but you know , it is only a 25,000 car instead of a 50,000 car.

The biggest problem i've heard with VW is the dealer mechanics suck and don't know crap about the diesels. Which sucks when you are under warranty. Beware of them. Other than that, just little stuff. Nothing the tdiclub and a knowledgeable mechanic can't help you with.

I rank VW bodies on par with MB on little annoying stuff and durability, cost of repairs, fun to drive. I rank their engine above MB for fuel economy and they come with a manual which is awesome and both are very durable.

I hope your wagon treats you good. It will be nice to hear how it does.

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What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

Well, if Japan can build cars that have lower emissions and contribute to cleaner air and better health, without reliability issues, I expect the other manufacturers, especially those building far more expensive vehicles, to do the same.
If VW is unable to provide competent mechanics to fix their cars, that's not going to be MY problem!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

So far so good with the wagon....we've got about 2,500 miles on it with 0 issues. Avg of about 43mpg. Oil still spotless on the stick, pretty amazing. The DPF system does a regen on occassion (wife does a lot of city driving) but it has never complained. If the car proves durable I'll probably remove the DPF if it ever has an issue.

Its pretty amazing on the freeway, it will do 100mph in 6th at about 2700rpm. Does 82mph at 2200rpm getting over 40mpg!

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

Cummins already has a straight 6 diesel that passes all emissions tests for USA without using uria. It's not rocket science ( well for the most of it) prototype diesel electric hybrid sedans were built around 2001 that got 80mpg. It's such a no brainer...from 2010 to 2012 the car market here went up almost 3% but the diesel sales went up 25%.
Imagine a Diesel hybrid with 1000cc 3 or 4 cyl Mercedes engine like the one in the Smart car but designed specifically for a hybrid . It would probably get close to 100mpg as the diesel Smart already gets between 70 and 80 mpg.

Typical VW. They're all basically toast by 100k. VW/Audis are always the newest cars in the junkyard.
What DPF

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

I think that might be a tad of an exaggeration, I've seen mountains of VW's (especially TDI's) with well over 200k on them from years ranging 1997-2005+...its all about maintenance as usual....a neglected MB won't last 300k either. People with cheaper cars tend to abuse and neglect them more, so they fall apart. I will be in charge of the maintenance of this VW, and under my obsessive watch I am sure it has 200k+ in it....plus its a 6 speed, so no stupid auto box to worry about. However, should it have any scary or expensive failures while under warranty, then I will be trading it.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

My neighbour has a 2012 TDI wagon with manual transmission. Prior to that he had a Jetta wagon.

I think he is reasonably satisfied, but he has had some electronic problems. One day his car just would not start (it would not even turn over). I went over and we tried a few things. But it was completely dead. He called the dealership and they came over. The service guy turned the key and it started right up. He said they could not fix it if it was working!

A few days later, same thing again, so they towed it in. In end it was the ECU which they changed out. Given this experience, he is going to trade it at end of 4 yr warranty. (5 year on power train?) But like many of us, he doesn't want another complex computer operated car - but then what else is there?

I am looking at getting a GLK diesel, but it is a bit pricey.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I don't think I would want one. The little smart diesel is cute, but it is turbocharged, electronically controlled, has emission controls that plug up the intake and a number of other potential problems. Parts are very expensive. Add a hybrid system and you double the complexity. And all this would be in a small car.

We have a cdi smart and although fuel costs are low, operating costs are high because parts and repairs are expensive.

What I want is a new W123 or W126 diesel. But we will most likely get a GLK and buy the extended warranty.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Fair enough, but I'm not saying that the Smart engine should be used or the only engine that could be used. That technology wasn't used back in 2001 when the prototypes were made and the sedans still got 80mpg. No new technology had to be invented all the engines/motors/generators have been around for decades.
Jaguar / Land Rover might bring a hybrid diesel here in 2014...unfortunately the price tag ...well you know...and the reliability of those brands...well you know.