WOW. New european diesels are finally coming to the US - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

zakkkk · #1 07-22-2013, 04:15 PM

I was happy to read in this sundays NYT automobile section that Audi, MB and BMW will be offering 4 and 6 cyl turbo diesels across their product lines. All Audi models will offer the diesel variant in 2014, even the big A-8 and A-7 sedans, plus Q-5's and A-4's and with 4WD.
MB to add C Class and GLK diesels to the E and S classes.
That's good news.
There was also an article on the Chevy - Cruise 4 cyl diesel sedan that's on sale now and gets 48 mpg hi-way.
Finally they are beginning to see it our way !!!
Interesting note was that VW/Audi has the only 4 cyl diesel that is 50 state legal WITHOUT needing the urea tank system.
Better engineering ?
jz

pawoSD · #2 07-22-2013, 05:38 PM

Not better engineering on VW/Audi's part, but a ridiculously complex particle trap filter. I'd honestly rather have the urea injection system. I will be stripping mine of said DPF system once the warranty is gone (if I keep it that long). It just wastes fuel and creates high backpressure/cuts performance.

tjts1 · #3 07-22-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakkkk

Interesting note was that VW/Audi has the only 4 cyl diesel that is 50 state legal WITHOUT needing the urea tank system.
Better engineering ?
jz

No, non urea diesels are cheaper to manufacture at the expense of reliability. New diesels that don't use urea rely on diesel fuel injected directly into the exhaust or during the exhaust stroke to burn off the soot from DPF. They go through rich regen cycles. This increases fuel consumption and and kills exhaust valves in the long run.

Jetta without urea
Fuel Economy of the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta

Larger Passat with same engine/trans + urea.
Fuel Economy of the 2013 Volkswagen Passat

cooljjay · #4 07-22-2013, 05:53 PM

I am curious about the new Chevy cruise, I know in the 80s the last diesel us manufactured cars weren't exactly what I would call high quality. I wonder if these have a better life span? I just wouldn't want a newer diesel because of the smog requirements in certain States, I suppose its a good idea for the environment but to me, it's just an added expense and headache...

zakkkk · #5 07-22-2013, 06:16 PM

I would be fine with the urea if they could find a place for the tank and not require run flat tires. All the MBs use the urea and need run flats.
I am not sure how Audi handles the tank/run flat issue on their six cyl diesels.
Chevy Cruise uses run flats.

panZZer · #6 07-22-2013, 06:31 PM

Well---if they have the longevety of our old benz's the cheapskates on this board will have one of these --in about 20-25 yrs.
Oh -wait the world will probably have ended by then.

Equestrian · #7 07-22-2013, 08:47 PM

Id be really interested in knowing who makes Chevy's powerplant. Mercedes and VW have a longstanding diesel tradition and alot of "practice" at building solid motors. Chevy's attempts have left me less than inspired. And even then most of their motors are outsourced not built by them. I wonder if its an in house design or what? Half a durmax?

gatorblue92 · #8 07-22-2013, 08:52 PM

IF they bring the new c-class to the US in diesel I'm buying one.

rscurtis · #9 07-22-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equestrian

Id be really interested in knowing who makes Chevy's powerplant. Mercedes and VW have a longstanding diesel tradition and alot of "practice" at building solid motors. Chevy's attempts have left me less than inspired. And even then most of their motors are outsourced not built by them. I wonder if its an in house design or what? Half a durmax?

It's made by GM of Europe, and has been in service there for a few years. Additionally, the choice of NOX controls is not DEF or no DEF, it's DEF or something else- retarded timing, more EGR, and in the case of larger engines, a NOX adsorber catalyst. DEF allows the engine to run the way it's supposed to and the NOX is cleaned up afterwards. Regardless of how the NOX is controlled, ALL diesel engines are equipped with particulate traps which require periodic regeneration. The use of DEF reduces that because the engine is running cleaner to begin with.

JHZR2 · #10 07-22-2013, 10:29 PM

The urea diesels all are on rft tires??!?

Bummer. Urea/DEF is everywhere these days, so doesn't concern me at all, but I like a real spare for any car if put a lot of miles on.

tjts1 · #11 07-22-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equestrian

Id be really interested in knowing who makes Chevy's powerplant.

VM Motori which is a joint venture with Fiat. The version sold in the US is manufactured in Korea by Daewoo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VM_Motori_engines#RA_420_SOHC

compu_85 · #12 07-22-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I'd honestly rather have the urea injection system.

Then you should have gotten a Passat

-J

Equestrian · #13 07-23-2013, 08:21 AM

Looks like VM also makes jeeps CRD motor based on the noises i heard coming out of two of those when they were brand new i stick with the Germans.
I don't know complexity is the enemy of reliability in my opinion. Every leap forward in power and emissions shaves a lot of lifespan. Somehow I doubt most of these new computer controlled wonders will ever really measure up to the standards of old. My old car may have higher emissions but i think its probably outlived about three Hondas by now.

tjts1 · #14 07-23-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equestrian

Somehow I doubt most of these new computer controlled wonders will ever really measure up to the standards of old.

Theres a couple of million common rail diesel taxi drivers in Europe who would like to have a word with you

Joking aside, the only problematic part on new diesels is the additional emissions controls installed on US bound cars. This stuff will also become standard issue in Europe in the next couple of years which should increase reliability dramatically. I think diesel emission controls today have the same maturity level as gasoline emission controls in the US in the 1970s. Reliability and efficiency will improve with time.