Rebuilt Title with vins that don't match
 

I've been researching a very complicated 300TD wagon for over a week to figure out if I should buy it. I have basically decided not to, but I just have to know if I made the right decision or not.

So, here are the issues:

It has a salvage/rebuilt Ohio title that says its a 1979, however everyone seems to agree that its more likely an 81-85.

The vin number on the door pillar has no letters, just numbers, it starts with 123 and is 14 digits long and the writing on the plate is all in German and it matches the vin number on the title. There's no vin plate in the window anywhere or on the radiator support. But then there is a vin stamped into the firewall, starts WDB123, it has both letters and numbers, therefore does not match the vin on the door pillar. When I search the firewall vin I get that it has an invalid check digit.

I would have to register the car in Georgia, and with the salvage/rebuilt title that means I'd need an inspection. I assume that they are going to check the vin numbers. I'm also planning on moving to another state in about 6 months, possible NY, PA or CO, but also possibly somewhere else all-together.

Also the seller says that the odometer slips sometimes, so the reading is inaccurate.

Other than that, the car is in good condition, the asking price is fair. I'm reluctant to step away because there's so much discussion about grey market cars from europe having unsearchable vins, but I can't find anything about vins that don't match and being able to register the car. My mechanic said that the car could get seized from us if the vins don't match. Am I right to worry about being able to continue registering this car from state to state or is this excusable because of the rebuilt title?

Thanks for making it to the end of this complicated question!

Guessing this is the one of ebay?

Mercedes-Benz : 300-Series 300TD in Mercedes-Benz | eBay Motors

Someone in the questions said the vin plate was for a 250t wagon.....this car has no euro features.....10-1 its stolen.....

Yeah, that's the one.

Something is rotten in the state of Georgia.

Most likely stolen. I wouldn't touch it.

If it's that old (either age) in Georgia it can go on Bill of Sale only - no title needed. Unfortunately you'd probably have trouble when you moved...

Run away. That thing looks 1981-1985 (turbo, buntds, second-gen climate control, headrests... the list goes on).

Call your local PD, tell them you're looking into used cars and want to be 100% sure that the VINs are clean. They should be able to run them and let you know.

What probably happened was this:

Someone got a car with no title, and had another junker with a title. They probably swapped the VIN plates instead of swapping the engine/interior, etc. Doesn't sound super legal, but due to the age it might fly as a custom? I have no idea. Maybe the rebuilt title has something to do with it?

Vinaudit.com is cheap and can give you the histories (maybe)

try to run the VIN embedded in the firewall.

the firewall is an assembly number, it's related to the vin, but it's NOT the vin.

however, the wdb part is... should match the vin on the jam.

that is obviously an early vin or a euro vin plate that's been rivited to the jam. the a piller on driver's side should have a correct vin on it. if it's not there, you can't register the car in any state but GA... and GA requires a state issued bill of sale notorized by a public official.
I have registered GA bill of sale's in other states, but they verify the vin... and this vehicle would not pass that inspection.

You mention the possibility of moving to N.Y.. Let me give you a heads up.....with any type of problem with the viin number, you will be spending the rest of your life trying to register the car.........you did the right thing by passing on this one.

That is a good VIN#
 

This is a W123.086 chassis vehicle

WDB12308612004371

Engine# 123920 12 046705
Mercedes-Benz M123 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

The firewall number is the chassis number, the VIN is an American standardised number. In Europe only the chassis number is used to identify cars.

I can't be 100% positive unless I went outside and checked....but I remember the vin on the pillar matched the vin on the firewall....when I had to go to the DMV for vin inspection.....she compared the 2....

Please note that although the car is a diesel, the VIN and the title bearing the 123.086 designation are for a gasoline car.
One might conclude that the car is of suspect origins, with a ripped-off european title.

Hmm
 

My best guess:
It is a Grey market import body that has been altered to diesel.


.

Run away. Rebuilt and salvage title is a new thing in GA courtesy of our new Gov who managed to get a no bid contract for handling the salvage title business.... Scammy all up an down.

In NY pre OBDII gas cars can be changed to diesel same way you do the color (so I'm told), just register it at the DMV. To register it anyplace, a title showing the current engine would be needed. To transfer to another state, I'd check first, and see what history is needed.

My 240D was evidently a graymarket euro delivery. VIN lookup says 82, lady I bought it from said New York saw it as an 85 for whatever reason. That's how it worked for my at the DMV

check, it's unlikely...

One possibility to protect yourself if you really want to try to buy the vehicle is to buy it contingent on getting a valid title in your name. Agree on the price, put the money in escrow with escrow instruction to release the funds upon receiving the title in your name. I'd also stipulate that he accompany you to the DMV to effect the transaction, so if there is anything wrong, like a record of a stolen vehicle, he is right there to be handcuffed. If he refuses, run like heck, otherwise you might get a clean title to a nice car.

Not worth the trouble. This coming from someone who recently put a clean theft recovery (from 1990) through a DMV vin inspection and investigation when one tag was scrubbed. It's a pain, I think the only reason it worked for me is because I have a family friend who happened to be a lead DMV theft investigator...

This would fly in Vt with no questions asked-- mail in and drive!

Same with RI. You'd walk out with a plate in 10 minutes for that car. They might even give you a high five.

However, X2 on if you plan to move to NY, don't buy it, registering will be a hassle and a half.

I once had to sell my own car to myself with the written permission of a hostile ex girlfrient because NY didn't like some provision on my out of state title that listed her as automatic ownership transferee if I were deceased. This was a car with plates in my name, clear vin with a title in my name, and owned for over 5 years by me.

The slightest irregularity or something they are not familiar with will end up in paperwork hell

For what it's worth -I wouldn't touch it. Not a bargain even if the title/vin problem didn't exist.

Salvage titles always make a car worth less - and this one has all the earmarks of a phony. Maybe even stolen.

The SLS needs work - might be just air balls - but could run into a lot of money.

Why not get one with a good solid history and title to start with?

Joseph

Gotta agree with VSTech. My pillar and post match but the firewall has similar numbers but doesn't match. When I ordered keys and tumbler I used the firewall number and all the keys fit the locks the right way. I was also told that the VIN is a US vin and wouldn't match the firewall.

My 1980 didn't have that climate control panel, it was vertical not horizontal, and my center console panel was actually black plastic not wood. That could have been an option though.

All that being said, very, very, fishy. Keep your money safe.

Both of my SDs have a difference between metal VIN tags and the firewall. Tags are similar but not exact. The 85SD has been in the family since new.

Regarding salvage title, it does devalue the car to an extent but is insignificant when referring to an old almost valueless car. It can't go much lower. It is almost at $0 now. It also doesn't take much of a bump to result in a salvage title.

TN throws a salvage at 50% of value. Any little stop sign bump will cause that much damage. My 85 was hit from the back. Carrier paid me $3,000. My friend repaired to reasonable for $50 and I'm driving it. If I decide to strip and paint, I'll fix it. That would only be for sentimental reasons.

Salvage titles do highly effect the value of a car. A salvage title means that in case of another total the car is only worth have of its value. My car was salvaged and you would never know it....I got paid full value for the car...they now told me, that if the car is hit again....pay out value is 1500$ flat....so why pay multiple thousands for a car, knowing that if you are hit....your insurance company will only give you a tenth of the price....when you just spent 10k for it...

this is why one of the perks of no title on old car states is if you don't have a title anyway, they can't make it a salvage.

my van has been paid out on a couple times at this point from little traffic fender benders. The only record of it being totaled is in my filing cabinet, the stub from each check.

Oh that is really nice! I think I will have to move to one of the States for a year or so....I want to restore my car but the insurance value keeps me from wanting to sink money into a paint job..

My '84 Euro TD has the VIN on the radiadior-support tag and firewall. It has no VIN tag on the door-pillar, windshield-pillar or dash.
The Euro VIN begins with WDB123. The typical US VIN starts with WDBA23 and is different from the firewall number.

First, Because I've read on these Forums about some havng serious problems getting insurance on a grey-market car, I ran the VIN by my insurance carrier. They had no problem with it

I did have a problem titling this car in Virginia because the previous title issuers (Washington DC and Maryland) dropped the ball and titled the car without including the WDB prefix. Virginia requires vehicles after 1980 have a certain minimum number of characters in the VIN.
The solution was the seller took the car to Maryland MVA and had a state-trooper inspect the VIN so MVA could issue him a corrected title.
The supervisor at Virginia DMV also told me that, while according to their computer database, there were some other nonconforming numbers in the Euro VIN, if Maryland issued a corrected title, that information would go on the NCIC database, and it would be accepted when I presented the seller's title to virginia DMV.

Indeed, when I went to title and register the TD, the lady behind the DMV counter did stare at her computer-screen for what seemed to be an awfully long time. But it finally went through and I got my title & tags.

Now in my case, except for the missing WDB prefix, all the numbers on this car and seller's title matched.

OTOH, a friend was interesed in an '85 Euro W124 300D, so when I suggested he first run the title VIN by his insurance carrier, it came back to an 86 W124 300E! It also didn't match the car's VIN.
My friend ran away from that one!

By the way, I saw an interesting car on eBay recently that claimed it had a 'dismantle' title (either from Nevada or Arizona - I'm not sure).
Is that the same as a salvage title or does that mean the car can only be scrapped?

Happy Motoring, Mark

I live in Nevada. Arizona may be different. I used to work at a junkyard, and selling any car to a dismantler results in the car being issued a salvage title. In Nevada, a car can't be registered for road use with a salvage title, however a salvage title can be converted to a rebuilt title with completion of a safety inspection by a licensed garage ($25 if you know where to go) and an application for rebuilt title. This is how I picked up my '71 250, which was driven to the junkyard, sold to it, and then bought by me and driven home. "Rebuilding" consisted of me fixing a minor electrical problem with the lights.

I also traded my clean title for my '83 for $2200 in insurance money after it was rearended. The car was repaired and repainted at a cost of 4 grand and some change, and I'm still driving it. After two months, I haven't gotten anything from Nevada DMV. I might start a new thread on that.

But it has US bumpers, US lights, 2nd-gen climate control, bundts, etc., etc., leading me to believe that it is a VIN swap. The sunroof looks manual, but there is still a button for the power sunroof, so I believe that the manual sunroof was retrofitted -- another mark against it being a euro.

Is that why you moved RI lol? What year is the cut off for no title on old car buying and selling? Are you issued a title upon registering it? If not, how do you scrap it w/o a title?

part of the reason. :D

10 years they stop issuing you a title. If you bring something from out of state and register it, they will probably give you back the title, but its not necessary for selling the car in state, bill of sale only. They used to take the titles if the car was old though. Ive had it happen both ways. I think VT or NH have similar local laws regarding age

However, I haven't scrapped a car without a title here. There are places to take it, but I usually just put it on craigslist for 25 bucks or something and instantly a no title vehicle is taken by a shady character. They might cut them up somewhere else or something, not sure

around here, a title is not required to scrap a car, but the vin is recorded, and checked against the stolen vehicle list before they let you drop it off.

GA also requires no title for cars over 10 years old. official bill of sale only.

I'd heard of salvage titles, but not a 'dismantle' title. Was wondering if it meant the same thing, or would it only allow the vehicle to be parted out and scrapped. The car in question was a '59 Hillman Minx Deluxe, with some damage to the left rear corner but no rust. Looked like it could have been straigtened fairly easily - at least enough to pass inspection and make it a driver.
But the 'dismantle' title scared me.

Here in quaint, historic, colonial Virginia, it's titles for life! Woe betide the poor sucker that has a title with anything irregular.

When I finally registered my Euro TD, I mentioned nothing about the seller fixing his title, or anything else. Still wonder what on the computer-screen held the DMV clerk's attention for so long!

Happy Motoring, Mark

That's cool with RI DMV, much cooler than CT and NY. I remember many years ago I had a NYC address and VT plates on my regi. All I had to do was send VT DMV a check with regi info (name address, VIN) and they sent me a regi and plates to my NY address. No insurance required back then in VT

I wonder when they stopped that? I'm sure they don't do that anymore. Ah the good old days. Lol