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  #1  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:08 PM
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Is this too much play?

Ok, so on the journey to figure out WHY the car has so much play in the drivetrain (back forth bucking due to slack taken up after accelerating from letting off) I have ruled out the Differential and backlash.

SO now I'm looking at the drive shaft as a possibility, as I said before the front flex disc is ok, the center bearing seems OK, and the rear flex disc is SORT of ok. The rear flex disc CENTER sleeve has been wallowed out... I'm guessing this is from the back forth oscillations over time (I try to keep them under control).

I took some video with the car in 2nd gear and me under it rotating the driveshaft left and right. The majority of the play appears to be coming from the front ie the transmissions flange.
Would you say this much play in gear from the tranny is too much? could this be a culprit? warped flywheel maybe?

Ignore the harmonic ring you see torn off behind the front flex disc... ill hack that the rest of the way off later.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuB6tWz_B6c&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXZE65xxN3L_yKTSBXIjpPg





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52m9A_zktbo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXZE65xxN3L_yKTSBXIjpPg




[YT]SuB6tWz_B6c[/YT]

[YT]52m9A_zktbo[/YT]













Let me know what your thoughts are on this back forth slop.

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  #2  
Old 08-17-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor750 View Post
Ok, so on the journey to figure out WHY the car has so much play in the drivetrain (back forth bucking due to slack taken up after accelerating from letting off) I have ruled out the Differential and backlash.

SO now I'm looking at the drive shaft as a possibility, as I said before the front flex disc is ok, the center bearing seems OK, and the rear flex disc is SORT of ok. The rear flex disc CENTER sleeve has been wallowed out... I'm guessing this is from the back forth oscillations over time (I try to keep them under control).

I took some video with the car in 2nd gear and me under it rotating the driveshaft left and right. The majority of the play appears to be coming from the front ie the transmissions flange.
Would you say this much play in gear from the tranny is too much? could this be a culprit? warped flywheel maybe?

Ignore the harmonic ring you see torn off behind the front flex disc... ill hack that the rest of the way off later.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuB6tWz_B6c&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXZE65xxN3L_yKTSBXIjpPg





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52m9A_zktbo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXZE65xxN3L_yKTSBXIjpPg




[YT]SuB6tWz_B6c[/YT]

[YT]52m9A_zktbo[/YT]







Let me know what your thoughts are on this back forth slop.
Are you going to replace them?

I can't watch the Video as I have dial up internet.

On the W123s that back and forth play (I am speaking of forward and to the rear play) is I believe adjusted with that coupling Nut on the Drive Shaft.

If the Flex Discs are not doing their thing I think that would add to the back and forth play; but not much.

I think the Engine and Transmission Mounts would also have an effect on the back and forth play.

If there is a Differential mount that could also have an effect on it.

Unfortunately you are dealing with a system of Parts that works together?
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  #3  
Old 08-17-2013, 12:19 AM
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yeah but there is something that is shot. just completely shot. this is something I have NEVER encountered in any of the cars I have messed with. And I have been around the block. I'm beginning to suspect its the transmission, Ive only owned one other car in the 300+k mile range so it is uncharted territory for me.
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  #4  
Old 08-17-2013, 03:32 PM
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the acceleration characteristics are similar to that of a slide hammer.
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  #5  
Old 08-17-2013, 03:36 PM
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I don't see much play in your U-joints or the flex discs. It could be that the parking pawl in your transmission is worn. Since you have the car on stands, there is no force against the wheels and or differential. Does the car roll a bit when you put it in park? Say more than 3 inches? Looks like 15 to 20 degrees play in the drive shaft.

With the brakes fully applied, do you notice any play when you shift from park to drive, to reverse? You would want to put your camera under the car when you do the test. Make sure there is a load on the differential so you know if the drive-train moves at the transmission or the diff.
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  #6  
Old 08-17-2013, 05:19 PM
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yup, the play you are showing on the video is simply the parking pawl spacing... normal.
we'll need more information to determine where the "play" in acceleration from letting off to flooring it is coming from... perhaps you are simply experiencing turbo lag? you don't mention the year of your 190, but since it has a balance disc on it, I'm guessing it's a turbo no?
explain better the play you are trying to figure out please.
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  #7  
Old 08-17-2013, 05:21 PM
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hold on... 2nd gear? so this is a manual... and the play you are showing is while in gear... hmmm
I'm not familiar with manual transmission symptoms... but there is a clutch that could have broken springs allowing the trans to rotate prior to the engine slack....
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"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2013, 01:56 PM
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Yes sorry guys its a 5speed non turbo diesel 2.5 5cyl forgot to mention its the car in my signiture below.
In fifth with the car off you can roll it at least 3-4" bumper to ground. I was beginning to think flywheel is warped or if its a dual mass the bushings holding the two masses are worn....
Any other ideas?
Is that center bearing play too much?
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2013, 03:55 PM
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3 to 4" measured on the ground? imho that is not an indication of trouble but is normal.
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:10 AM
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Well there is slack somewhere and it's not the diff. Under any acceleration it wobbles a bit, but if you let out at all then try to accelerate again.... whiplash time. you could keep it going for miles and miles if you wanted probably rip the car apart.
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  #11  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:56 AM
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motor mounts?
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:16 AM
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The problems description is somewhat limited but I might suspect something is up with the clutch. Throw out bearing sticking or slow to totally release or whatever. To experience a severe effect like even minor delayed whiplash is unusual.

That much wear present in the other components and they would have already failed I suspect. Or very obvious. I guess there may be a chance your center splines on the driveshaft are toast is perhaps another possibility. Allowing almost a full turn before locking. This would also be unusual.

Last thought is the bell housing bolted down well or loose?
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:08 PM
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Pull the flex disks and inspect the flanges, see if the nuts are loose...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #14  
Old 08-19-2013, 02:16 PM
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Definitely pull your flex discs and check them thoroughly.

I'm not an expert but it sounds like general wear adding up. My 220k DD has a similar slide hammer effect. My theory is the slop adds up between the clutch, transmission, u-joints, diff, and axle teeth. If I'm light on the throttle on flat ground I can get it to kick back and forward. You learn to either be accelerating in gear or coating in neutral.
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:53 PM
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Do you have some sense where the vibration is coming from? ( front / rear or one side ) Have you revved the motor to say 3000 RPM in neutral?

With the wheels on the ground, ( or at least on ramps. ), motor off, trans in neutral, grab the axle shafts and move them front to back / up and down to check for play. They will move left to right so don't confuse that with other looseness.

Does you car have a tripod inner joint? What can happen is the lobes wear then the shaft no longer runs concentric with the joint casing.

The problem won't be a release bearing or warped flywheel. There is a ever so small chance the clutch is oil soaked / pressure plate spring weak allowing the clutch to slip / stick but, the engine will flare up when this occurs. If you have a dual mass flywheel it could be slipping but the engine will flare up if you get in to the throttle hard.

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