clocking turbo, gasket problem & ridiculous bolt

[bricktron]

hi folks,

i am clocking my junkyard replacement turbo to fit on my cali engine. is this crud falling out of the assembly while cleaning and clocking the disintegrated remains of a gasket? eatont9999 told me in another thread that i might destroy the gasket in clocking the turbo, but this stuff, if it is the gasket, has been ruined for years.... right?

if so, how can the asymmetrical bolt head at top of the turbine be removed? none of its sides are parallel to each other!

[panZZer]

Originally Posted by bricktron

hi folks,

i am clocking my junkyard replacement turbo to fit on my cali engine. is this crud falling out of the assembly while cleaning and clocking the disintegrated remains of a gasket? eatont9999 told me in another thread that i might destroy the gasket in clocking the turbo, but this stuff, if it is the gasket, has been ruined for years.... right?

if so, how can the asymmetrical bolt head at top of the turbine be removed? none of its sides are parallel to each other!

I have never heard you could just clock the hot side of a federal garrett turbo and bolt into a 85 cali model manifold--it dosent make sense............. because there would not be two different turbos if that were the case, and many people would have made it common knowlege this could be dont to swap out a bum 85 cali turbo if it were possible.

[bricktron]

i think the difference between the turbos is down to them being three years apart in age, not that the design changed substantially. (the earlier one has no ARV though.) they are labelled differently but have the same ratios stamped on them at the two ends.

i opened up the older one too and it does not have as much grit under the cup. maybe this is not the gasket but just exhaust junk, and i only need to clean it up better?

[Diesel911]

There is no gasket on the Exhaust Housing to bearing Housing. What you are seeing is Carbon.
The Seal is Metal to Metal and Carbon quickly fills any cracks.

The Gasket that the other Member was speaking of is on the Compressor/Aluminum Side.

I am assuming the question about the Turbine was because you are going to take the Turbo apart.

On the Exhaust Turbine sometimes a 12 or 6 point socket works if there enough left. The area that is removed is where they balanced it by grinding Metal off.

The Torque on the Shaft Nut on the other side is not very high so it does not take too much force to hold the Turbine in place to remove and install the Nut.
Just do not grab a single Fin on the Turbine and attempt to hold it that way.

[panZZer]

Originally Posted by bricktron

i think the difference between the turbos is down to them being three years apart in age, not that the design changed substantially. (the earlier one has no ARV though.) they are labelled differently but have the same ratios stamped on them at the two ends.

i opened up the older one too and it does not have as much grit under the cup. maybe this is not the gasket but just exhaust junk, and i only need to clean it up better?

Besides the ARV--- They are two phisically different turbos, they may both have the t3 flange,so what.
That dosent mean you can reclock either side and make it work on the cali manifolds.
Most definately not witout making a custom aluminum O ring spacer to fit between the turbo outlet and manifold inlet- if it were even that simple- because if it were possible to just reclock and bolt on it would already have been discovered-For Sure. In fact Benz would probably have done this themselves when the recall in the 85 cali models made them replace all those trap oxidizers and turbos.

[bricktron]

thank you Diesel911. it is carbon. i will just bolt it back up together then! you're right, there is no gasket here.

i also found that the studs for the exhaust flange are slightly shorter on the '82 turbo (right); it cannot comfortably accomodate the intake manifold mounting bracket that the '85 had. these studs have no flats on them. what do you all recommend?

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by bricktron

hi folks,

i am clocking my junkyard replacement turbo to fit on my cali engine. is this crud falling out of the assembly while cleaning and clocking the disintegrated remains of a gasket? eatont9999 told me in another thread that i might destroy the gasket in clocking the turbo, but this stuff, if it is the gasket, has been ruined for years.... right?

if so, how can the asymmetrical bolt head at top of the turbine be removed? none of its sides are parallel to each other!

You don't clock the impeller side of the turbo. That mounts to the exhaust manifold and is in a static position. You want the oil feed to ALWAYS be 180 degrees with the input facing upwards. The compressor housing can be clocked. I highly suggest that you replace the gasket between the snail housing and the CRH. If you can't replace that gasket, remove the snail housing and lubricate the gasket with engine oil so you can rotate the compressor housing without ripping the gasket/o-ring.

If you want to remove the impeller shaft, you will need to get a 16 point socket and a 6 point socket on both ends. If you go that far, you might as well just rebuild the thing with new bushings, etc. The impeller-side exhaust shield will always have some carbon on it. If the carbon build up is excessive or moist, you should consider rebuilding the whole CRH because the exhaust seals are most likely shot.

Watch my video series and it should answer a few questions. I did forget some of the part names during the video but I showed them and described them pretty well.

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by bricktron

thank you Diesel911. it is carbon. i will just bolt it back up together then! you're right, there is no gasket here.

i also found that the studs for the exhaust flange are slightly shorter on the '82 turbo (right); it cannot comfortably accomodate the intake manifold mounting bracket that the '85 had. these studs have no flats on them. what do you all recommend?

The studs should still work.

[bricktron]

hi eatont, i agree that the exhaust side stays put and the intake side rotates. oil should drain directly from top to bottom. i mocked it up in the engine bay and the intake flange mounted correctly on the little manifold adapter with 2 O-rings, just like the old turbo as far as i could see, panZZer. that is to say, i haven't seen any reason this won't work yet, just getting confused along the way.

i never wanted to take it apart this much, but i'm only one step farther in than clocking it.

i don't understand how you refer to a "snail housing" when it looks to me like there are two. also, what is CRH? compressor housing? always happy to lubricate, i just don't know where the gasket is that you are describing.


honestly, i have had a hard time watching your videos because of the moving camera. thank you very much for chipping in here with good info!

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by bricktron

thank you Diesel911. it is carbon. i will just bolt it back up together then! you're right, there is no gasket here.

i also found that the studs for the exhaust flange are slightly shorter on the '82 turbo (right); it cannot comfortably accomodate the intake manifold mounting bracket that the '85 had. these studs have no flats on them. what do you all recommend?

I know that the Bolts that hold the Exhaust Housing to the Bearing Housing can sometimes Break off when you remove them.

But, the Pic the Studs look thicker.

What you need to get the Studs out is going to depend on how hard they are attached.

Before attempting to turn the Studs start putting a little Penetrating Oil around them and immediately before try to remove them Heat the Housing area where the Stud Screws in with a Propane Torch. You don't need to worry about too much heat with a Propane Torch.
The Heat will with luck expand the threaded hole the Studs go into.

The DIY way is to get 2 Nuts and thread them away from the end of the Stud and tighten the 2 Nuts together. To remove the Stud you would turn the Nut that is closest to the Housing. It is called Double Nutting.

I don't recommend using the generic type Stud Removers that you turn and a part rotates and squashes the threads. They are OK if they can be applied to the smooth area of the Stud but they are rather bulky. Sears used to sell them.

If they are not suck in a Vice Grips on the Smooth part of the Studs might work.

The best Stud removers have an Collet that is threaded for the Stud and an outer Sleeve the as you tighten the Tool squeezes in on the Stud. Because it is threaded for the Stud it does not damage the Threads.

The last type of Stud remove is one you can make yourself. You need to find a Metric Rod Coupling which is a Nut that is about 3 times the length of a normal Nut the same inside threads as the Stud. You also by a Bolt to that fits the threads of the Rod Coupling.
You screw the Rod Coupling about have way onto the Stud, and then you screw in the Blot.
Use a Wrench to hold the Rod Coupling and tighten the Bolt. When that is done you use a Wrench on the Rod coupling to hopefully turn the Stud out.
See the Pic.
This Tool does not work real well on really stuck studs.

[bricktron]

what a comprehensive review of stud removal! great stuff. i had forgotten about double-nutting, what a genius move.

i thought i had gotten it tolerably tight without swapping the 8 studs, but maybe i will try the above as well. right now my concern is getting one or the other turbo back into the car as i will have to move it for street cleaning tomorrow.

thanks folks for your advice!

[DeliveryValve]

Yes double nutting is what I always done. You should definitely have the correct sized studs. You need that bracket for the support, too much engine vibrations to cause problems.

The correct term is CHRA - "center housing rotating assembly".
There should be no gasket on the turbine (exhaust) side of the housing as d'911 stated.
It doesn't matter which part you rotate, you can rotate the turbine housing or you can rotate the CHRA. Just make sure the oil inlet and drain perpendicular when the turbo is mounted and of course the compressor side outlet will have to be rotated also.

So far I think it's looking good.

.

[bricktron]

OK, i swapped the studs around. applying heat did help (i used a butane torch since my propane nozzle seemed to be clogged). i was surprised the penetrating oil didn't ignite. only two of the studs are longer and have to be changed over.

mocked it all up in the engine bay. the oil supply and air intake were still out of orientation so i opened up the other side to clock it as well (finally understood that there are two rotatable parts in the assembly). here, there is a gasket, and it's broken into pieces. 4 3/4" diameter and 1/8" wide. amusingly this is the exact diameter of a CD.

i guess i have to go to o'reilly right now and see if they have anything similar. my hopes aren't that high. would i be courting disaster to reassemble it with no gasket, or with some of that make-your-own gasket junk?

[bricktron]

just back from the auto parts store. obviously they did not have anything relevant but i got a sheet of the cut-your-own material. royal PITA. if i had known that clocking the turbo would require completely disassembling it i would have known to order this gasket in advance. i would have pulled a turbo from another cali engine instead, but seeing one was quite a long shot.

[bricktron]

i cut a gasket out of this grey rubber crap with a pen knife. street cleaning is in one hour. sheesh...