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  #1  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:57 PM
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match balance flywheel

Doing the auto to 4speed conversion: I have been calling around to get the flywheels match balanced... I have been finding that a) people don't do it b) people will not just balance the flywheels - they want the crank.

am i asking incorrectly? or what is my issue...I am in los angeles by the way; also will ship out if you know somebody.

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  #2  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:01 PM
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If the flywheel on the existing engine is itself balanced you don't need to have the new one match balanced (just balanced). If it is balanced as a unit with the crankshaft, then you should see witness marks to show the proper orientation. (Sometimes these are hard to see though)

If they are balanced as a group, then you need to "match balance" the new flywheel to the existing one. This will essentially put the identical amount of misbalance into the new flywheel as existed in the old. Then you need to install the new flywheel in the same orientation as the original,which is why you make your own witness marks on the crank and flywheel before removing.

I've heard that a majority of flywheels do not require match balancing...but you can bet that if you don't do yours it will surely be one of the ones that require it. It's just Murphy's law.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysunm View Post
Doing the auto to 4speed conversion: I have been calling around to get the flywheels match balanced... I have been finding that a) people don't do it b) people will not just balance the flywheels - they want the crank.

am i asking incorrectly? or what is my issue...I am in los angeles by the way; also will ship out if you know somebody.
That's weird, I've never had an issue getting a machine shop to do this job. Usually I just ak if they can match balance a pair of flywheels for me, then if they say yes or no, I drop by with the flywheels to get a quote in person.

Its possible you might be giving two much information. I usually leave it at "old 80s diesel" application. I try not to ever say mercedes or 5 cylinder unless the place seems cool about the job
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:31 AM
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Are neutrally balanced possible or available?
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrgrassi View Post
Are neutrally balanced possible or available?
Yes but it is unclear to when the neutrally (or independently) balanced components were introduced to the OM617. There's this problem that lots of people can't find the marks on the flywheel or crank, and that sometimes the marks don't exist because the the parts were indeed independently balanced...
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:46 AM
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I never found any kind of mark anywhere when I did my swap, and I did Scotchbrite everything so as to make any such marks visible.

There is a place near me in Arlington, WA called Perpetual Balance that I have have a few things balanced by. Most recently I had my flywheel match balanced. I skipped going through my machine shop and went directly to the balance shop, since no machining was needed. I can't remember now if it was $60 or $80 to get it done, but the owner knew exactly what I needed done, as he seems to do a few of them every year.

He does have a website at Perpetual Balance | Your Engine Balancing Specialist Since 1985

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:15 AM
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Is this really necessary?
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2013, 02:58 PM
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During my conversion I brought the flywheel in to be neutral balanced. Cost $60 if I remember correct. Worked great, I've done this on a 240d manual flywheel and the heavier 5 speed flywheel. Both worked great...still have the 240 manual fw laying around.
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:01 PM
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I believe that everything after 1981-1982 is neutrally balanced. It is before that that insanity reigns.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBenz View Post
During my conversion I brought the flywheel in to be neutral balanced. Cost $60 if I remember correct. Worked great, I've done this on a 240d manual flywheel and the heavier 5 speed flywheel. Both worked great...still have the 240 manual fw laying around.
FYI -- the flywheel weight does not vary between transmissions, but rather between engines. The OM616 had a 28-pounder and the OM617 had a 38-pounder.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2013, 07:58 PM
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Some shops don't balance loose flywheels because they don't have a mandrel to hold the wheel. Most of the time when someone wants a FW balanced it is part of a crank balance.

You can easily zero balance or duplicate balance between 2 flywheels as, due to their thin section, they are only balanced in one plane. ( crankshafts / drive shafts are long and require balancing on both ends ) I've done it with damper pulleys when mix matching Oldsmobile V8 parts.

You need a old time " Aircraft Tire Balancer " ( or general machine shop balancer ), this is a shaft with cones that go through the wheel center hole. The ends rest on low friction bearings. If you make you own with packaged ball bearings, pull the seals and remove all grease, use some ATF or similar to wet the bearings and put the seals back on.

So, with this all setup, give the wheel a slow spin. ( it should go through a couple of revolutions before stopping ) After it stops, mark the wheel at the bottom ( use a square or fashion a pointer at bottom so you have a repeatable reference.)

Do this 3 times, if the marks are all in the same general area, you have found the heavy point. If the points are at random, spin a few more times, if still at random the wheel is at zero (neutral / perfect balance).

When you have found the heavy spot, add some weight to the outer edge of the light side. ( on the top, 180 from the heavy bottom ) Magnets work well here. Respin / mark a few times and adjust weight until your marks become random again. When finished you now have a zero balance.

Find a reference point on the wheel, like an offset bolt hole / keyway. If you don't have an offset bolt, pick a hole near the added weight.

Move your attached weight from the first wheel to the second making sure to use the same reference point.

If you don't have a reference point or the first wheel was zero balance from the start, spin the new wheel without weights, you might just be able to clock the new wheel to match the first one if you added weight.

Using the new wheel with you add on weights. Spin 3 times to find the heavy point at the bottom. Remove material ( usually by drilling in the case of a flywheel ), until you have reached zero balance.

If you are balancing something like a stamped pulley, add weight by welding on small tabs.

I think I've covered everything, this method of balancing is time consuming but works. The only alternative is to use a $$ electronic balancer, this generally has load cells in two planes, a read out showing out of balance weight and some sort of way to determine where the weight should be added. ( degree wheel , strobe )
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
Late 1980 - mid/late 1981 was the manufacturing change (depending on production plant), (this does not apply to Africa or South America assembled vehicles)..
1982 and later are balanced.

.
My engine swap disproved that theory. original motor from a late '83 OM617 turbo. The engine had a auto ring gear plate that was not neutrally balanced. It was about 40 grams heavier on one side as I recall. The shop had no trouble matching the 240D flywheel I supplied to the auto plate. Had I tossed a neutrally balanced flywheel on instead of one that was that much heavier on one side, it would have been a vibrator.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2013, 01:35 AM
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+1 on the mandrel. i had to ask five or ten shops to find two that said they could do it.
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2013, 11:37 AM
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Correction

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAdams4458 View Post
My engine swap disproved that theory. original motor from a late '83 OM617 turbo. The engine had a auto ring gear plate that was not neutrally balanced. It was about 40 grams heavier on one side as I recall. The shop had no trouble matching the 240D flywheel I supplied to the auto plate. Had I tossed a neutrally balanced flywheel on instead of one that was that much heavier on one side, it would have been a vibrator.
I agree.

After more research than I want to discuss.......
I deleted my earlier postings.

Because I had a neutral balanced 280SE flywheel handy, it was installed for testing = it shook the engine hard (worried about breaking the new engine mounts).

Today I will install a 1973 220D flywheel per factory service procedure.


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  #15  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:35 PM
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My 84 280e euro had a non neutral flywheel.

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