190D vs 190E - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

centroid1 · #1 09-23-2013, 12:34 PM

So I've been looking around briefly for a 190D, maybe a 1987 190D 2.5 turbo. But it seems to be a pretty rare car and parts might be hard to find. But in the process, I'm seeing a lot of 190E's that look really nice, low miles, and newer even, like 1993.

I know I would like a diesel, but can anyone tell me more about the 91-93 190E's ?

Is it a good car to have and fix up ?

pawoSD · #2 09-23-2013, 01:11 PM

190e will need a lot more engine related maintenance. When running nice they are fun cars. MPG will be a lot less with a 190e than 190d. My 190d was originally a 190e 2.3, engine gave it up around 205k, so I swapped in a diesel with 240k on it....still going strong. I've driven it thousands of miles with 0 issues.

The gas ones are more fun because of the performance factor, but expect it to cost more to own and it will need repair more often.

centroid1 · #3 09-23-2013, 02:36 PM

Was it expensive to swap out the engine like that ?

sixto · #4 09-23-2013, 02:53 PM

The 190E was available as a 4cyl 2.3 M102 and 6cyl 2.6 M103, both with 4sp AT or 5sp MT. I'm not familiar with the M102 but the M103 wrote the book on needing head gaskets every 100K miles, and early ones came with poor valve guides. A 91-93 2.6 should be out of the woods as far as valve guides.

If a 190E is an option, why not a W202 (C220, C230/K, C280)? Seems to be a lot more car for not a lot more money.

Parts shouldn't be hard to find for the 2.5 turbo. Most of it is a 190E, a bit of it is a 190D 2.5, what little is left is a 90-93 300D 2.5 turbo.

If you're looking for a project, a 190E 2.6 has all the room and fittings to become a 190D 3.0

Sixto
87 300D

Stretch · #5 09-23-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by centroid1

...but can anyone tell me more about the 91-93 190E's ?

Is it a good car to have and fix up ?

Ha!

(Oh my sides)

Extra extra! Read all about it

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/341121-achtung-das-schweinhund-baby-benz-thread.html

Stretch · #6 09-23-2013, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

...
If a 190E is an option, why not a W202 (C220, C230/K, C280)? Seems to be a lot more car for not a lot more money.

...

I'd say no to a W202 because of the rust issues. Might not be a problem where some of you guys are but someone in the family over here had a W202 and it rusted from the top / sides down - weird car =>not bottom up but top down!

Searching for a rust free Mercedes in my climate is particularly frustrating - W201s are bad W202s are a joke.

MBeige · #7 09-23-2013, 03:14 PM

Some folks also do a 190E 3.0 (m103) swap if you want to fun factor of the more powerful 3.0L m103 gasoline engine. The chassis is very tossable, and feels go-kart like.

My 190E was problematic for the first few years, due to bad compression in #2 and #4 but since doing a top overhaul and timing chain + head gasket, it's been a good daily driver. Sixto might be on to something, mine had valvetrain problems.

tjts1 · #8 09-23-2013, 03:36 PM

190e is a good car but I wouldn't recommend the 6cyl. The engine bay is just too tight. The 2.3 is an excellent engine, low maintenance, cheap to run. Try to find a 5 speed (extremely rare). Its about 30% more fuel efficient than the slush box.

pawoSD · #9 09-23-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

190e is a good car but I wouldn't recommend the 6cyl. The engine bay is just too tight. The 2.3 is an excellent engine, low maintenance, cheap to run. Try to find a 5 speed (extremely rare). Its about 30% more fuel efficient than the slush box.

Correction, a healthy M102 2.3 is an excellent engine.

Beware because an abused one can be a nightmare. They are also not fuel efficient considering the size of the engine/car, expect 17-18 city and 23-25 highway on premium, knock 1mpg off for the 2.6

Cost of converting to diesel was about $1900 + I paid about $600 for the car with dead motor (but rebuilt auto trans).

Paid $700 for the engine total (including cost of picking it up 750 miles round trip), replaced full belt tensioner setup, $175, vac pump $325 (ouch) Then I needed the diesel style transmission cooling hard lines and various other bits (radiator shroud). I also needed the engine support arms from a late 190d 2.5 which an awesome forum member helped out with. Overall it was a fun project and took about 2 months to do. If I did it again I'd probably find an OM602 non turbo or turbo for a bit more power. The OM601 is exciting in its own way, that being making the best of 72HP.

I've put about 3,500 miles on it and have had 0 issues so far.

winmutt · #10 09-24-2013, 12:17 AM

3.2 in a 201 is pretty fun so I hear.

sixto · #11 09-24-2013, 04:09 AM

While you're at it, 190E 3.6 AMG or however MB would have badged it.

Sixto
87 300D

pawoSD · #12 09-24-2013, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

3.2 in a 201 is pretty fun so I hear.

Maybe to drive but not to fit into the engine bay!

Mölyapina · #13 09-24-2013, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

While you're at it, 190E 3.6 AMG or however MB would have badged it.

Sixto
87 300D

While you're at it, just go for the M117! Why mess around? :p

tjts1 · #14 09-24-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Correction, a healthy M102 2.3 is an excellent engine.

Beware because an abused one can be a nightmare. They are also not fuel efficient considering the size of the engine/car, expect 17-18 city and 23-25 highway on premium, knock 1mpg off for the 2.6

My 2.3 auto has been on a strict diet of 87 octane since I bought it. Over the last 45k miles it has averaged 27mph, all time low 19, all time high 33. EFI is king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdKJawKNU5Q

pawoSD · #15 09-24-2013, 10:38 AM

The M102 is not EFI, its CIS, which is a hybrid electro-hydraulically-adjusted-mechanical fuel system. EFI means electronic fuel injection.

When working properly its great, when its not, its a pain. For some reason in my experience the smaller motors (M102, M103) seem to be a pain to keep running right vs. the bigger engines like the M116. We've put 35,000+ miles on our two v8's in the family and have had virtually no issues with them at all. The M103 and M102 I had both were a pain and rarely went over 2-3k miles without issues.

Edit: I see you have converted your M102 and M103 to MS system. Thats cheating.

I'd love to convert my M116 to MS, but the cost and work required would probably be huge....