1985 w123 Euro 300D (Non-Turbo)
 

Hello everyone, time for a new member to post! :D

So I have lurked, unregistered, since I first purchased my 300D last October.
1985 w123 Naturally aspirated Euro 300D that has:
A/C (not connected, never has been. Odd setup, feels like the compressor is on it's last leg when turned by hand)
Sunroof
Cruise Control (not working)


So, when I bought this Merc, I had really no idea what I was getting into, or what a decent price was for the vehicle.
I ended up paying $1000 for it. At the time, it turned over, but didn't run. It was dented, and completely trashed.
It's been about a year now, and I have been using it as my daily driver to and from high school. It's about 70 miles round trip, in a high altitude (I start at 6,000ft and have to go over a mountain). I've put about 15k on it.

I have been able to figure out most things fairly easily, though a few still escape me-- despite the wondrous help that the Haynes Manual provides... which isn't much. I have pretty much given up on that, and have only been using it for technical specifications (i.e. valve clearances and such).

So, unfortunately, the person who had this before me was a bit of a drinker. There is a dent in the rear end, center of both the trunk lid and the trunk itself. Most of the damage seems to be in the lid though, thankfully.
The next bit of damage, that is a bit more difficult to make out, is what I think is called the radiator support (not really sure). It is the piece that has the information plate, the radiator sits directly behind it, and the aux fan in front of it.
Looking down at it, the immediate problem would be that it is angled a bit downward, so the hood has to travel a bit further to latch.
The other problem that is more of a pain in the a-- I mean neck-- is the fact that it is about two inches shorter than the factory setup, which does not allow for me to fit the euro headlights in, nor does it allow for the proper adjustment of the hood.
While I am not yet concerned with aesthetics, meaning the back dent is not a problem, I am concerned with the front. Does anyone know of a cost-effective way to redo/fix the front end?

The next issues have to do with the automatic transmission. So, when shifting, the transmission takes an unusually long amount of time between shifts-- at least compared to past experience. This is much more prevalent when attempting to accelerate in a timely manner, probably because the rpm's are higher.
In my infinite knowledge as a sixteen year old teenager, I am assuming it has something to do with a governor in the transmission not being adjusted properly.

A third bit of concern is the lack of power. When getting on to the interstate, I tend to have a bit of a.. nervous hesitation? I don't really know, but I guess it is more of a personal problem than anything else, though I do know what causes it. I have a moderately steep incline, from which I am supposed merge into traffic moving at about 75mph, and by the time I reach the top of the hill, I am usually only going about 45-50mph (while the other cars will be up to speed).
I have not adjusted the injection delivery system at all, although it is set to a different spot than the factory tick mark (I believe it is advanced.. presumably to aid in cold starts?).

And my final problem, which relates back to the most recent two, is that the engine seems to run out of power fairly quickly. I have checked and adjusted my throttle linkage, but that hasn't helped much.

So, I have looked through what I could of the forums today, and I haven't found much information about these specific problems. Unfortunately, because of a certain nameless being *cough cough my dog cough*, my normal computer is not able to function, so I am using a school computer, which seems to have an issue with the search thingy. :(

Pictures will be coming tomorrow, probably! It is currently dark, and I need to pay a visit to the pressure washer before I take any pictures! My car, while painted white, is more of a tan/mud color right now than anything else! :eek:

Any subsequent posts will probably be a lot shorter, sorry about the length of this one!

Thanks in advance for any help!!
~hetiticth


P.S. Any cheap ways to increase performance would be appreciated!

P.P.S. I have a limited access to tools, though I can borrow most of what I need. Unfortunately, no access at all to any welding equipment.

the automatic transmission sounds like its flaring. thats a common problem are there are probably (literally) hundreds of threads about it. it could take you days to read through all of them! the shifting quality (hard/softness) of the shifts on these cars is controlled by vacuum. if the shifts are too soft it will "flare" between shifts (take a long time).

running out of power could really just be a result of your elevation and driving a non-turbo car. how badly does it bog down? for example, at 6000ft and a steep incline, i probably wouldn't expect you to top 50mph, especially if its in 4th.

My truck has the same engine and i'm also dealing with a power loss issue. IF you come across another 300D N/A drive it and see what the difference is.

Lack of power check list
Are your injectors spraying correctly?
Is your to timing chain stretched?
Are your filters clean? (This includes the tank strainer)
What is the condition of your injection pump?
When was your last valve adjustment?
How is your compression?

There are others but those are the basics for now.

If it shifts into 4th, I tend to lose speed going up the hill, so rather than having it constantly revving extremely high, I let off the throttle a bit. Once I am up to speed though (after the hill levels off), it is pretty decent at maintaining its speed.

Is it safe to assume that a lack of a proper vacuum will result in a softer shift?

Are your injectors spraying correctly? I believe so, though I haven't gone through and checked them yet.
Is your to timing chain stretched? Nope, not at all.
Are your filters clean? (This includes the tank strainer) Yes, although I hadn't thought about the tank strainer-- it probably isn't clean :( I had been planning on dropping the fuel tank itself, and cleaning it, though I haven't had enough time to do so.
What is the condition of your injection pump? Couldn't say, it looks okay from the outside, and it doesn't leak.
When was your last valve adjustment? 8k-ish ago. Doing an adjustment on Saturday, and I may fiddle a bit with the injector delivery pump timing.
How is your compression? Haven't tested it. Can you test it without taking the injectors off?


Is there any prescribed fiddling involving the injector pump, or should I just have at it?
Also, I have the Euro style pump. Does anyone know if I need to loosen more than three nuts in order to adjust it? (Just by a quick feel, I only found the three)

Please, don't touch the injection pump.....it has nothing to do with your issues....don't touch it, till all the other stuff is up to power and then if you really really really and I mean really feel the urge mess with the injection pump....

Start with the fuel system, drop the tank and clean clean clean.....install new fuel filters both, replace fuel line....install new primer pump.....have your injectors rebuilt or get a rebuilt set....great member here does that...

Next valve adjustment, air filter, oil change

Third linkages, don't just play with them set them to the proper FSM specs....I doubt your car is an 1985 so use the 1981 with type m pump specs

30 Accelerator Control - OM617

Now let's focus on transmission...a trans that isn't working correct will also effect performance...

Service the trans, drain the old oil....from the torque converter and trans....replace with dex/merc fluid and new filter....read the dipstick when the car is warm and idling in park....

Fix any vacuum issues....

And confirm the Bowden cable if you have one is correctly adjust and not broke...

Confirm that all the shifter bushings are in place....should be four of them.

Now lastly, let's face facts....your car is slower then a Volkswagen bug....I believe yours is 88hp, in altitude they lose 33%.....your hill speed is totally on track.....I have a non turbo, that I believe its pretty close to full service and maintenance....I reach a hill here and I am down to 50mph.....

My car is an 85 Euro Naturally Aspirated 300d (which is a gray market car-- privately imported to North America).

I know that the timing is off, as it has a rough idle (even when warm). Because of this, I would like to mess with injection pump.

Where did you get your info on altitude power loss? Using that rule, I lose about 30hp because of altitude (assuming I have 88), which would put me at 58hp. And that's without account for the drive train loss, which I know averages between 13% and 15%. Add that in, and I lose another 8hp, putting me at a grand total of 50hp.

Somehow I think that isn't quite right.

I know my vacuum system is complete and does not leak, does anyone know what the stock vacuum pump should be pulling?

I'll include a picture in a bit of the panel that says the importation stuff. It is rather difficult to read, so I need to go through and rub some graphite on there so when I take a picture you can read it :cool:

This weekend, I tackled the valves, and fiddled with the Bowden cable. I had messed with it before, in order to help with the shifting, so this time I didn't really get any further benefit out of it. Oh well :undecided

The vacuum is on a closed system that excludes the central locking system, as there is a leak somewhere that I have yet to find. The way it is set up though, it does not leak.

Are the fuel strainers generally re-usable? I've seen that people have cleaned them and put them back on, but I wasn't sure this would be a good idea..

Still have a rough idle after valve adjust. Still looking into adjusting the IP.


I am fairly positive the injectors are factory, and haven't been removed or replaced yet. I was very very disappointed with the amount of care this car received from the previous owner-- so a detail like this wouldn't surprise me.



EDIT: Will also be looking for a white trunk lid in the central NM area.

I would replace the injectors before messing with the IP. The tank screens can be cleaned and reused.

They're cleanable but a genuine one is $20, I just replace them. If you've got the tank drained and you've dug up a 46mm socket. Why not just put in a brand new one with a brand new seal.

Money is a bit of an issue, so I am trying to save costs where I can, so I'll likely just clean it. Is there any specific way to do so, or can I just wash it off with water, then finish with carb spray?

(All repairs and the insurance come out of my pocket, fuel is out of my mom's because I take my sister to school every day and hardly ever go out-- it's an hour to town.)

Stevo-- should I replace the whole injectors, or just the nozzles?

You stated the chain isn't stretched but you think the IP timing is off. How do you know it's not stretched? I agree, don't mess with the IP until you have checked everything else.

There was a fellow here, Sean something, cant remember, that will install new nozzles and balance your injectors. Perhaps someone can chime in. He did a couple sets for me and cured my rough idling. I'll find his name eventuality if no one chimes in.

As to the strainer. The hose is attached to a brass fitting that screws into the tank (strainer). Cut the 'wings" that fold around the hose and you can reuse the fitting. Otherwise you have to buy a new hose with fitting instead of just a new chunk of hose. That will save you a couple bucks. After you get as much fuel out of the tank as you can, jack up the rear passenger side of the car and you wont get a diesel shower when you drop the strainer.

Seventy mile round trip to high school, I used to walk that and both ways were uphill. There is only so much you can expect from your vehicle, so I think if you follow what Cooljay recommends that should suffice.

Here is a thread concerning Sean Watts, injector re-builder
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/255565-has-anyone-heard-c-sean-watts.html

hopefully hes doing better with his back problem.

If hes not around you can install the new nozzles and if you luck out, balancing wont be necessary. I have successfully done it. I know from running commercial boats if a Jimmy needs a new injector the engineer just sticks in another one and away we go. Of course this may not always be the case with MBs, but you can always pull them back out and take them to a diesel shop for balancing if she still runs rough. I use Monark nozzles.

Contact this member for fuel injection service.....I wouldn't do it myself.....

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/323971-fuel-injector-service.html

Greazzer is the injector service king -- he is the guy cooljjay linked to. I would go with him.

Pulling your injectors and replacing the nozzles is not a big deal. Just like any other job, replacing a water pump or adjusting the valves. You need to have the right tools and have an idea what your doing (have the manual) and take your time. Its not magic. I had Sean do mine when I could afford it but in the past when funds were low or non existent I did it myself, what can go wrong:rolleyes::D

I ended up putting a new chain on, as it had never been replaced before, and I figured it would be a good investment.


If the filter is very clogged, would a tank cleaning fluid be a decent investment? (A Biocide?)

Also, where are the vents on the tank located? I am having a bit of a collapsing issue with the tank. The fuel cap hisses when you take it off the car (after driving it).


We have a horse, but it isn't as fast...

With the balancing of the injectors, does anyone know how large of a standard deviation they are allowed to have before they need to be replaced?

Many thanks, though I fear that I will probably not go anywhere for injection service, unless it is local (very unlikely), because I generally only have the weekends to get things done.:(

Are there differences between the turbo and the NA injectors?




I sure hope I can get a steadier job, yardwork is starting to not cut it anymore :sweatdrop:

Maybe some of the local mechanics could use some low wage help...

What manual did you use? I've a Haynes manual that has most of the pages torn out that I got from the last owner, and that isn't very helpful, so... I have had to run to the computer a few times :computer:

It seems to me like it would be pretty easy to just take it off and replace the nozzle.. I thought it a little odd that everyone was suggesting sending them off. Maybe I'll find out that it isn't so easy as it seems... I think I am prepared! :gunsmilie:

P.S. I never knew that there were so many different smiles that one could add into their posts... everyone be prepared!

If the screen is gunked up a hefty treatment of a Biobar or the like is needed. You may need to pull the tank, Ive never had to. Have plenty of fuel filters in the trunk and dont forget the wrench and some clean fuel to fill the filter before starting back up. Even if the screens clean a treatment of Biobar is a good idea especially with winter coming on.

As I remember the tank vent is hanging down, driver side of the tank, it should have a "bell" shaped gizmo on the bottom.

I have a set of MB manuals. They are available on line but I dont have the link. The pictures and illustrations are not great but not bad for free. The Haynes is OK for allot of things. Cheltons is pretty worthless.

You really need a good vice when getting those injectors apart and be very careful not to mix up parts. I would invest in manuals and some tools if your up for working on these cars, they are really very DIY friendly.

Wow you replaced the timing chain with out even checking stretch?

Have you rechecked the timing since you replaced the chain?

As I remember reading, there is key that is added to take up slack which must be removed after a chain replacement, the tensioner I believe is also suppose to be changed...

Tank is collapsing.....you need to fix that asap.....that will cause an issue, the tank is really easy to remove.....and blow out all the lines...

New Page 1

Since we haven't got photos, I can't say what year your car is....but this link covers non turbo engines....just use 1981 as your model....engine OM617

Model 123 - OM617 Non-Turbo Maintenance Manuals

I've got a pretty decent set so far, and I am amassing more and more as I get further into the work on the merc (it rhymes...:dancefool ). It seems to me like the further into the work I get, the larger sockets I need!

I am looking into getting a welder so that I can fashion some tools of my own, as well as to more advanced bodywork.

wow... the NA euro in high altitude... with a clogged tank vent. it's a wonder you can climb the hills at all!
pull the bell off the tank vent tube, and that will solve that, next you need to verify fuel supply pressure. member funola has a kit to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to pretty cheap.
I agree, you need to verify your timing placement. open the valve cover back up, and line up the cam notch with the tower arrow, and see where the balancer pointer hits. if it's around 2-6 you have a key in there that needs to come out, and replace with a straight key.
also check the throttle linkage. have someone step on the accelerator to the floor and look to see if the throttle stop is reached on the IP.

Could've sworn I put up a photo or two, but I went back and checked, and nothing was there! Gah! I guess using the URL from an album doesn't work.. photobucket, here I come!

I hadn't checked the chain before, but I had heard that you were supposed to change them every 200,000 miles for the w123's (don't ask who, don't really remember...). The chain, and tensioner were both replaced.
I checked it this weekend (a total of about 15k miles on the chain), and I don't remember seeing any significant amount of stretch as compared to what the factory said would occur (it is a little under 2 degrees-- so like 10.75 ATDC).

For my tank, I have been using a plastic fuel cap with a hole poked in it in order to keep it from collapsing, and it has been working pretty well. I do have a proper cap waiting, I just need to get the issue solved before that goes on! :P

Pictures... hopefully.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa7282085.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...pscfb610af.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4ef85dc5.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps66c16af3.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9662b995.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0850467d.jpg



The engine compartment has since been cleaned. I'll try to get out and take a few more pictures tomorrow, and throw them up.

That's a myth about changing the chains on these cars ever 100k.....other cars that is mandatory but if this one shows no stretch or the stretch is below the FSM specs there is no need to change it.....or you just add a simple 4 deg key to fix the stretch......what I have read, stretch is really only the result of not properly adjusting your valves......my car had 4 deg stretch I think it was.....perfectly fine and I know I have 200+k even though the odometer shows 160k.....one day I may add a key but it is nothing worth fixing tomorrow.....

no, stretch has nothing to do with valve adjustment, stretch is simply a wearing of the chain and or gears. the only thing that impacts longevity of the chain is oil change interval and oil quality.

and, the key will not fix everything affected by the chain stretch, only the cam timing is fixed, you still have to alter the injection timing to match the cam timing...

I will be tackling this sometime this week... I wonder if it is partially collapsed :eek: The most I have ever put in was 14 gallons (after I had run it out of fuel)...

Will probably post more pictures and stuff tomorrow, but for now I am getting off.

Until next time, and thanks everyone

if it is, you will see it by pulling the false trunk wall out, and looking at it.
fixing it is easy, just hook up an air compressor to it, and put about 3 psi on there... it'll POP right back into shape. be sure and check for leaks once you do this though... crinkled fuel tank metal can fail.

Can it collapse in the opposite direction?

And, if there is a leaking issue, are the euro and US tanks the same? (I can't think of why they wouldn't be, unless US needed more room for emissions systems)

no, the shape of the tank is flat on the back side, and the front fits in the contour of the seatback, so it's pyramid shaped and very resistant to implosion from the front. if it's collapsed at all it'll be in the rear of the tank.

123 tank is a 123 tank, I've got 240's 300's euro and US... same... aside from volume... (240 tanks are smaller)

Alright, that is good to know! Many thanks!

If I've time tomorrow, I'll start experimenting with vacuum on the transmission to see what isn't right.. Fun days ahead!:rolleyes:

Your fuel tank probably looks like this one in this thread....

Why you shouldn't ignore a plugged fuel tank vent - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

I didn't see anyone address this. The answer is no, that assumption is incorrect. Lack of vacuum will cause overly hard shifts. I do not recognize the VCV system in your photos that US market cars have so I cannot help with specifics for your car. But US spec cars have a valve that modulates vacuum to the transmission by the amount of throttle input - full vacuum at idle, nearly none at full throttle. Shifts get harder the less vacuum the modulator sees from the VCV.

More photos:
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse5732bea.jpg
Looks like the tank isn't collapsed! Yay!
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1380766274
IP timing off from factory mark.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1380766278
Whole setup
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1380766275
Importation info (1985 model manufactured in 1984)
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1380766279
Another (clearer?) photo of engine bay, driver's side.

Engine code: 617 912 12 162 197
Transmission code will come up later, I will edit this post when I have it. Will be looking into checking the modulator via this method, and hopefully that will be most of the problem...

Also, Secondaries, thanks! What you said makes me wonder if part of the system is missing, or the lines are hooked up backwards...

Cars not an 84 or 85 one tell tell sign is the vacuum controlled cruise control.....I am going to venture its a 1981.....I believe the vac controlled went away in 81 or 82....and they began to use the electric motor servo one.....bummer someone resprayed the car in a different color....

Is there any way to tell if the engine has been swapped? To my untrained eye, it appeared to be original (looked at it from both the top and the bottom).

And the car was originally black, as far as I can tell. I don't have much of a history on the car, other than that it was privately imported by the previous owner's grandfather. They did a terrible job repainting the car. As soon as I get everything in working order, I am going to start the 'strip and redo everything' method of automotive body repair...

I doubt your engine was replaced.....it has the euro type m pump on it.....I would imagine if it had a new engine swapped in, it would have been a standard us non turbo engine unless the block was changed by the dealer.....if you would have checked timing stretch before the replacement of the chain....that would have told you if it was a rebuilt engine or not.....a compression test may also tell....

that manufacture date is the stamping of when the car was imported to the US and "converted" to US requirements most likely. are there any other data plates on the car that could offer a build date from Germany?

I've got the VIN in several locations, though previous searches have proven to be pointless. It is the US style VIN, not the European, and when I paid for one of the $3 VIN things, it said it was an '85 model made in '84...

EDIT: I'll see if I can get the original purchase info from PO's grandpa.

I am still waiting on the info from the PO.

A new problem has developed. It is vacuum related...

When the vacuum is hooked up to the regulator on the injection pump properly, it creates an odd noise when running. I am not really sure what is causing it, but tomorrow I will start looking around..
I do know it is not related to the vacuum pump itself, because in a closed system, the vacuum pump doesn't make the noise.

If anyone has any ideas, help is appreciated! :o)

An update:
 

An update:
First owner said he purchased the car in 1984, in a town near Stuttgart, while on some sort of vacation.

There was something preventing the vacuum regulator thing on the injection pump from closing. Got whatever that was out, never found it. I think it was probably just a bit of dust.

Ended up replacing the screen in the tank, because it was only $2 more than just the seal, because of some kind of sale. There weren't any clogging issues with the old screen. I replaced the vent as well.

Still having transmission issues, can't seem to find where the issue starts.

Haven't done anything with the injector pump.

I have been thinking about troubleshooting my cruise control. Does anyone have any advice on where to start? All I know now is that it holds vacuum.

Any luck resolving the power issue?

Sorry for such a late reply, I haven't been very active recently. No, I never resolved the power issue. I ended up getting the transmission shifting very nicely... until a few weeks ago when it started slipping. I was looking into taking it apart and fixing it, but I ended up just getting another mercedes.

So, now I have a, '84 Turbo 300D-- which I aim to be driving it within the next couple weeks (My 1949 Dodge has been my daily driver, and my 80 mile commute to school is kind of nerve-wracking, not knowing if something will fail).

Time to start a conversion from US-style stuff, to Euro on the new slug!

I don't think that matters. Its a euro, prolly did not come with cruise. Prolly added here. 84 on IP prolly corresponds with an 85 model, imho.

Nice clean looking motor looks original to me.

Who knows. The lever for the cruise control on the inside of the car is in german, if that helps confuse anyone!

This car has officially been stripped and sold, so I have a few parts that I will put up for sale soon, including the euro IP.

I want to do it through eBay, for a couple reasons. I saved some of the interior, where it was different from the US car. Unfortunately, it isn't in good condition. The wood is missing from the center console piece, and back plate things for each of the dials are cracked.

The fan control dial had the wire cut. I was not aware of this, until I pulled it out. It was taped to the other side of the cut, and the cut was on the car side of the cable connector .

I have a recently resealed power steering pump, as well as the hoses accompanying it.

I have the alternator.

I have the intake manifold.

I have the Euro IP, which would come with the metal lines.

I am sure there are a few more things that I have which could be sold, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment. It is also dark. I'll probably go look through what I've got tomorrow, and then start posting things on eBay by next week.

Once the first listing goes up, I will create a separate thread, in the proper area, listing what is for sale.