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#1
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Please, any help for tough smoke problem? (300SDL)
Hi all,
I really appreciate any advice you can give me on this issue. I've searched the forums across the Internet endlessly and am only growing more confused. The local Benz shop was absolutely no help, except to offer a diagnosis for $400 (starting). So, I'm new the whole older car diesel thing, but I've been managing to do most of my own repairs. But, I'll get to the point. My 87 300sdl always smoked a bit on start up, even in warm weather. Lately, this has become a big problem (people are rolling their windows up around me). When I start it up, it generally starts fine, but then I get a huge cloud of white smoke. This clears up a little after the engine warms up (to just under the 80 mark). However, when I sit at a red-light, after a few seconds it begins to smoke again. Sometimes a little, sometimes a LOT. It tends to kind of build up, and go on and off. I also get a lot of smoke when I floor it on the highway and then I'm smoking the entire lane. At normal speeds, it's not noticeable in the headlights behind me at normal speeds or on the highway. I recently replaced my nozzles with monarchs (and got them tested) and I'm getting pretty decent milage. Also, as far as I can tell, I'm not losing oil or coolant. I'm definitely not overheating. The engine runs a little rough sometimes and the trans kicks, other times it's all perfectly smooth. I recently had my engine mounts replaced, but I still need to do the trans mount, which is where the shake is coming from, I think. I have not noticed any significant power loss, other than at times having a bit a slow climb on hills when starting from a stop. But dropping it into 3rd generally takes care of that issue (its not fast, but it's not bad). After lots of searching and asking questions, I want to say it's my injector pump, but I'm absolutely no expert. From what I can tell, white smoke under these circumstances can mean a LOT of things. So, questions: Would this be an IP timing issue? Or, is the whole pump going? I can hear a little building whine coming from somewhere in that area when I accelerate from a stop. If you don't think it's that, what are some other possibilities and how do I begin to diagnose it? I don't have the money to just throw at it and hope something works. Again, I really appreciate the advice from you experienced posters. |
#2
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Check chain elongation and IP timing. Not difficult DIY and shouldn't cost anything though the IP locking tool is handy.
Smoke when you accelerate after idling could be worn valve stem seals. General smoke could be oil leaking past the turbo shaft seals. How much oil do you see in the compressor wheel when you remove the turbo air inlet hose? Sixto 87 300D |
#3
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White smoke is sometimes an indicator of a blown headgasket. I'd buy a kit which checks for exhaust gases in the radiator before pursuing other lines of investigation. Any visual evidence of coolant in the oil or vice versa?
Posting a video here would help with the diagnosis.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#4
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have yeh tried the patch?
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#5
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Wow, thanks for the quick replies.
Remember, I'm a total newbie, so I don't understand what all these things are (I'm sorry to say). Kerry: I don't think there's evidence of coolant in the oil. It just looks like oil to me when I pull the dip stick. What would be a good indicator? Coolant level doesnt appear to be going down either. Also, no leaks around the head gasket, isn't that an indicator? Also, I'd be happy to upload a video tomorrow when I've got some light. Anything in particular that would be helpful for me to point the camera at? Sixto: I've read the timing adjustment is really tough without a $300 AB light thing. Would an MB indy be able to tell if that's the problem fairly easily? Also, I haven't checked the compressor wheel (I'm not 100 percent sure what that is) but I have not removed the turbo yet to look. |
#6
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Video of the smoke under the varying conditions is what we need. Headgaskets rarely fail externally, although if there's no visible evidence of mixture of oil and coolant, I'd go with Sixto's hypothesis about bad turbo seals. Evidence of oil in coolant would be an oily bathtub ring around the coolant overflow tank.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#7
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Thanks Kerry. So, you think turbo seals would be a more likely factor than the IP?
The one thing the MB service guy said was it sounded like the IP was going and I was getting too much diesel to the engine, this, the extra smoke was just diesel being burned off. Also, is the coolant overflow tank the main coolant tank? If not, where is it located? I'll check that out and report back. |
#8
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As a minimum, do a compression test on engine. Low compression will have unburnt fuel coming out on and off. Do some easy checks first.
1) Loosen oil filler cap and check blow by. Oil filler cap should stay pretty stable on valve cover, not dancing. 2) Any smoke coming out of the vent hole at the left hand back corner? It is the blow-by relief hole. If you see a lot of smoke at idle then engine is suspect. 3) Turbo seal will give continuous massive white smoke. BTDT. Unlikely to be on and off as described. 4) Check whether you are loosing coolant or engine oil. 5) IP timing would not go off suddenly. 6) Worn valve guide would give smoke in the morning after oil spool up at night. It should clear out afterwards. This is all I can think of. Disclaimer: I am not a heavy engine guy so read my post with cautions. However, I have overhauled 3 engines ( 2 OM603 and 1 OM601) recently so there is a lot of issues I have experience with. Good luck.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed. W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html 1 X 2006 CDI 1 x 87 300SDL 1 x 87 300D 1 x 87 300TDT wagon 1 x 83 300D 1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry. |
#9
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Even with little experience. Remove the coupling hose if there is one between your turbo and engine intake. Start engine. Does the smoke become as usual or is it gone? If gone your turbo is leaking oil. I am trying to make this as simple as possible.
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#10
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There might be an A-B timing light for rent in the tools forum. This engine isn't particularly sensitive to IP timing. It will run well if it's close. Without an A-B timing light, you can use an IP locking tool to tell you the position of the IP relative to the crank pulley indicator. You can even use a mirror if you trust your eyes to tell you the RIV tang is centered in the inspection port.
Sixto 87 300D |
#11
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Quote:
Sixto 87 300D |
#12
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Quote:
If OP is having white smoke and it smells like Diesel Fuel the Fuel some of the Fuel is not burning at all. If the OP smoke smells sweet or not like the ones mentioned above it is likely Coolant.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#13
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When a Head Gasket leaks it does not always cause Coolant to be in the Oil. It depends on what passage the Head Gasket leaks nearest.
It is possible for combustion Gasses to get into the Coolant. If you shut your Engine off and come back 3 hours later and feel your Radiator Hoses and the Hoses are hard as if they were inflated that is a sign of Combustion Gasses trapped in there. Of course the Chemical Test Kerry was speaking of would tell you for sure. To get a rough estimate of your Timing Chain Stretch; actually your Camshaft Timing you can remove the Valve cover and line up the Camshaft/Gear Timing marks and take a look at what degrees the Pointer points to down by the Crankshaft Damper. (Always turn the Engine in the direction of normal Rotation) For the IP Timing you could purchase the Fuel Injection Pump Timing/Locking Pin; somewhere between $35-$45 each. While the tool is mainly made for removing and re-installing the Fuel Injection Pump it can be used for timing. The tool catches on that Blade/Tang that you see in that big clear pic of the side of the IP. Some other things to consider. Air leaking into the Fuel Supply System and if the Delivery Valve O-rings are leaking (the top of the IP will be wet with Fuel).
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#14
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Subscribing to thread to hopefully hear a prognosis. Similar story - Acrid smelling and smoky SDL. Changed motor mounts and need to do transmission mount to hopefully get rid of last bit of vibration. I was thinking about injectors but this thread has me reconsidering.
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#15
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Quote:
People have claimed the Green Coolant smells sweet at the exhaust when there is a crack or Head Gasket leak and the Coolant gets inside of the Combustion are. But, I have not read how it smells when there is a Coolant leak with the newer Orange Coolant; does anyone know?
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
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