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  #31  
Old 10-09-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
... the IP sucks fuel from the filter outlet and pumps fuel through the injectors and the injector return lines back to the tank....
I would have to disagree about the "IP sucking fuel from the filter outlet". There is no transfer pump in the IP to suck fuel. The IP relies totally on the external lift pump to supply pressurized fuel to it.

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  #32  
Old 10-09-2013, 01:44 PM
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I don't think there's an air leak between the lift pump and the tank because the primer pump works.
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  #33  
Old 10-09-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I don't think there's an air leak between the lift pump and the tank because the primer pump works.
Depends on the size of the leak. With a pinhole leak in the line, the primer pump
will still suck fuel,
plus some air.
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  #34  
Old 10-09-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I would have to disagree about the "IP sucking fuel from the filter outlet". There is no transfer pump in the IP to suck fuel. The IP relies totally on the external lift pump to supply pressurized fuel to it.
Hmmm.
are you certain that the IP does not draw fuel ever?
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Depends on the size of the leak. With a pinhole leak in the line, the primer pump
will still suck fuel,
plus some air.
Wouldn't the lift pump do the same thing but it's not delivering fuel to the secondary filter at all.
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  #36  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmmm.
are you certain that the IP does not draw fuel ever?
The inline Bosch pumps (with external lift pump) does not draw fuel by itself, ever- it cannot. The VE Bosch pumps (like on your Jetta) have built in transfer pumps (vane type) and they do draw fuel. You can run a test on your inline IP.... bypass the lift pump and see if the engine will run. I bet money it will not.
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  #37  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Wouldn't the lift pump do the same thing but it's not delivering fuel to the secondary filter at all.
If there is a pinhole leak in the fuel line (I am talking about a very small rust pinhole in the fuel line that barely weeps when engine is off), the lift pump will still draw fuel plus air, just like the primer pump will. Depending on the severity of the amount of air getting in (dependent on the size of the pinhole), the engine may be hard to start or not start at all, or run ok or very rough or stall out.

The best tool for quickly diagnosing if there is air in fuel is a clear section of fuel line at the cigar hose. It should be solid stream of fuel there. If air is getting in, it will end of there and be easily seen.
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  #38  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:10 PM
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I almost bet the lift pump has so much wvo crud in it that it has ceased functioning. Or only functioning at a very small amount of the requirement.

Take the output line off and crank the engine. In a way you have already accomplished that with no results. If the replacement or cleaned tank filter has not crudded up again. And I doubt that as the primer pump might not move fuel if that where the case.
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  #39  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:03 PM
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Just to update some of the recent conversations, I checked all of the lines and connections, I can not find a leak. Now that being said, it doesn't mean I could not have missed something somewhere. There's alot of dark areas bends etc, but the fuel lines, etc. all look good. Rust is not a real issue on this car, even though it is a 40 year old car the undercarriage and lines, etc. are very clean, but I gave it the once over and feel it is not the case. But, I have been wrong before.

I went to the local MB dealership and ordered the rebuild kit for the lift pump and a new primer pump. The primer pump as a precaution while I have it out, it does stick a bit when I push it down.

My plan is to tackle the lift pump this weekend. I think at this point, it is wise to do anyway, because of the comment by Barry and others have made, referring to the amount crud that has gone through the system. There is a good possibility that there is an air leak, but also a greater possibility that the lift pump needs to be refurbished regardless.

Also, I will diagnose the air in the system as Funola suggested by inserting the plastic run of fuel line on the return end.

Also, I did not remove the output line, but as you (Barry) stated it would not have pumped when primed and it did with ease.

I will keep everyone updated and I again appreciate the help and suggestions of everyone.
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:38 PM
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I wouldn't rebuild the lift pump, I would toss it and buy one that was only used with diesel. I tossed two I had because the veggie gunk destroyed them.....chances are, the lift pump has a broken spring in it......there are also two different lift pumps thus two different kits.....you should have the early style on that car....
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  #41  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
I wouldn't rebuild the lift pump, I would toss it and buy one that was only used with diesel. I tossed two I had because the veggie gunk destroyed them.....chances are, the lift pump has a broken spring in it......there are also two different lift pumps thus two different kits.....you should have the early style on that car....
I have to at this point, I do not have a spare and this is daily driver.
I checked Ebay with no success.
The dealership was pretty good about ensuring we got the correct one, we'll see.
Thanks
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  #42  
Old 10-10-2013, 05:29 PM
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You can always ask in the wanted section but here is one used one on eBay...

Mercedes 617 300D 300SD 300 SD 240 D Diesel Fuel Injection Prime Side Pump '83 | eBay
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
You can always ask in the wanted section but here is one used one on eBay...

Mercedes 617 300D 300SD 300 SD 240 D Diesel Fuel Injection Prime Side Pump '83 | eBay
I saw that one, it was from a newer car so I didn't think it would work.

I'll do the wanted angle, thanks and I'll let everyone know how I made out.
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  #44  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by junker68 View Post
I saw that one, it was from a newer car so I didn't think it would work.

I'll do the wanted angle, thanks and I'll let everyone know how I made out.
It will work just fine, in fact it may work better.....I imagine you have the style below, the exact same one I had on my car.....I pulled this style off a turbo from pic n pull.....its been on for sometime and works perfect....



Since you have the early style, when you changed to the newer black primer pump.....did you reinstall the valve? Number 62 and 63? With out that, it will not work..


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/322286-78-240d-lift-pump-valves.html
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Last edited by cooljjay; 10-11-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2013, 04:38 PM
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Thanks again, I'll look into it, but for now I am removing and putting the current lift pump back together.

Here are some photos of the removed parts and I would imagine if this was not the problem it definitely contributed.

Empty secondary filter housing and stall-cam00339.jpg

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