Anybody ever tried any stop leak product in a #14 head?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ebrobb · #1 10-10-2013, 04:09 PM

Ok, I know I'm probably going to get thrown under the bus, drug through the mud, kicked in the shins and punched in the face for this one, but here it goes anyway.
Just wondering why with the #14 head known propensity to crack, especially small fissures between the valves, would it not make sense to try some head/block seal products instead of tear into a 25 year old engine, also with the fact that a good revised head is so stinking expensive. A new #22 head might be justified on a pristine example of a car, but I'm guessing those are getting fewer as well. Most of these vehicles, even though they function daily are getting high on miles and in need of more and more repair.
I have heard near miracle cures from some of the products on the market, and actually have several friends that used them to patch up an old clunker to get by for a while longer.

Just wondering in case it ever happens to me, I have perused these forums quite a bit and have never seen a thread on it, and a search didn't turn up anything.
I know it's not the proper way to fix something, and is only a Band-Aid over the real problem and no one knows if it will work, and for how long.

Just wondering if it is even an option to keep in the back recesses of ones brain for an emergency situation? Has anyone used any of the block/head seal products on the market with any success with a cracked #14 head or is replacement the only option??

sixto · #2 10-10-2013, 06:11 PM

Welding is another option.

Sixto
87 300D

Diesel911 · #3 10-10-2013, 07:21 PM

There is a difference between Radiator Stop Leak and Block Sealer.

If there is a crack in the Head Block Sealer (has Water Glass in it; can't remember the Scientific name for it)would be the most likely one to work. But, I have read you should keep it out of the Heater Core and some things I read about it has that you should keep it inside of a running Engine longer than the Instructions say.

What I don't know about Block Sealer is if it can be used as a preventative before there is a leak. However, I don't think you can use it as a preventative. I believe you already need to have a leak.

Stop Leak is merely a bunch of particles of something circulating around the Cooling system with some Chemicals that might help the Particles glue together as that block a hole.

sixto · #4 10-10-2013, 07:29 PM

Block sealer might help a tired head gasket or a freeze plug that's coming loose. A functioning radiator cap won't let the cooling system see more than 18 psi. I don't think block sealer or any band-aid will stand up to combustion chamber pressure which I read can be something like 700 psi in a naturally aspirated gasser, and manages to punch a hole in the cylinder head casting.

Sixto
87 300D

whunter · #5 10-10-2013, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrobb

OK, I know I'm probably going to get thrown under the bus, drug through the mud, kicked in the shins and punched in the face for this one, but here it goes anyway.

Just wondering why with the #14 head known propensity to crack, especially small fissures between the valves, would it not make sense to try some head/block seal products instead of tear into a 25 year old engine, also with the fact that a good revised head is so stinking expensive.

A new #22 head might be justified on a pristine example of a car, but I'm guessing those are getting fewer as well. Most of these vehicles, even though they function daily are getting high on miles and in need of more and more repair.

I have heard near miracle cures from some of the products on the market, and actually have several friends that used them to patch up an old clunker to get by for a while longer.

Just wondering in case it ever happens to me, I have perused these forums quite a bit and have never seen a thread on it, and a search didn't turn up anything.
I know it's not the proper way to fix something, and is only a Band-Aid over the real problem and no one knows if it will work, and for how long.

Just wondering if it is even an option to keep in the back recesses of ones brain for an emergency situation?

Has anyone used any of the block/head seal products on the market with any success with a cracked #14 head or is replacement the only option??

I have tried every product on the market, and worked on more of these than I want to remember.

There is no magic cure.

There are a couple of products that have 50/50 odds of band-aiding a cracked cylinder head briefly, (usually less than 50 miles).

.

layback40 · #6 10-10-2013, 09:08 PM

in the distant past I used chemi-weld on a gasser with a badly cracked cast iron head. Have used it on an old diesel again with a CI head. Both ran ok for years after.
For your application. I dont think anything other than welding or replacement would give a satisfactory result.
Replacement is your best option as the head has weaknesses & will just crack on another cylinder soon enough.
If the cooling system is properly looked after & not neglected cracking should not occur.

winmutt · #7 10-11-2013, 10:21 AM

I have a good #14 I'll sell.

ebrobb · #8 10-11-2013, 11:27 AM

Well, I had a reason for this posting and I was able to confirm it last night. See my other post about 300SDL timing problem driving me crazy.
After a head gasket replacement because the oil passage at the front of the block was leaking into the #1 cylinder, and having a machine shop check the head over and found no cracks, as well as the car never showing signs of a cracked head before the head gasket R&R. I believe now the head has indeed cracked.

I read on another forum a guy was on there saying never attempt to R&R a #14 head, they are so fragile that if it isn't cracked when you take it off, just the tightening of the head bolts will crack it, when you reinstall it. I decided to take my chances and hope the guy didn't know what he was talking about. Now it seems he was correct.

Wednesday night I saw white smoke/steam coming out the tail pipe after the engine had fully warmed up, as well as the crankcase breather tube that goes from the valve cover to the turbo.

Last night when I attempted to start it up it wouldn't even turn over, I pulled all the injectors and spun the engine over, #4 was full of coolant. However #1 did not have oil in it like it did before the head gasket procedure, so I think while fixing one problem I have created another.

The car runs fine while cold, but as the engine warms up it begins to blow white smoke/steam out the tail pipe, no coolant in the oil or vice versa. I would think if the head gasket didn't seal it would blow steam all the time, which leads me to believe the problem is a cracked head, because the crack opens up as the engine warms up.

Whatever the cause, headgasket that didn't seal at #4 or cracked head, it would seem now that with this new problem the car is indeed a parts car at this point. I am at my wits end with the car and my wife is screaming at me to quit messing around with it and, blowing my time and money on it. And with the car's other problems I hate to admit she is correct in that I'm just throwing money into a bottomless pit. She just wants it gone so, I will be listing it as a parts car later this weekend, if after a couple weeks there is no interest I will just have the junkyard come get it.

It's a crying shame really, I hate to see a Mercedes go to the junkyard, and I have saved many cars from the scrap heap over the years, but this one got the better of me.

whunter · #9 10-11-2013, 02:07 PM

I disagree, the #14 cylinder heads are at best poor design / engineering + multi faceted critical failure of MB quality control.

Don't blame yourself...

There is NO way of predicting - when the #14 cylinder head will fail.

Through the years I have been blamed for several dozen random #14 cylinder head failures; after replacing climate control Blower motor, Brake pads, tires, fuel filters, front bumper, window regulator, and other totally unrelated components.

.

ebrobb · #10 10-11-2013, 02:32 PM

Thanks for the encouragement.
I think I did a good job on the head gasket R&R procedure, I took my time, if I got stumped, I consulted a couple manuals or the internet.
I actually found and bought a Genuine Mercedes Repair Manual on CD, in the MB sleeve and never opened, but never needed to consult it.
Anyway, I knew the heads were a problem going into this thing, I have owned 4 of the OM603 over the years, but the engine ran well when I bought the car despite the mileage and other things that needed fixing. So I set about fixing the other things, figuring when I got most of the little things repaired I would have the car re painted, and I had gotten a couple price quotes for body work. Now that the engine is wacked just doesn't seem like it's worth pressing forward.
The thing I am most pissed about is the money I dumped into it to fix, window motors, central locking system, having the wheels sandblasted and professionally painted, new tires, etc. It was all fun until the stinking motor went south.

whunter · #11 10-11-2013, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrobb

Thanks for the encouragement.
I think I did a good job on the head gasket R&R procedure, I took my time, if I got stumped, I consulted a couple manuals or the internet.
I actually found and bought a Genuine Mercedes Repair Manual on CD, in the MB sleeve and never opened, but never needed to consult it.
Anyway, I knew the heads were a problem going into this thing, I have owned 4 of the OM603 over the years, but the engine ran well when I bought the car despite the mileage and other things that needed fixing. So I set about fixing the other things, figuring when I got most of the little things repaired I would have the car re painted, and I had gotten a couple price quotes for body work. Now that the engine is whacked just doesn't seem like it's worth pressing forward.
The thing I am most pissed about is the money I dumped into it to fix, window motors, central locking system, having the wheels sandblasted and professionally painted, new tires, etc. It was all fun until the stinking motor went south.

I suggest three possible options:

#1. Look for a good used higher level cylinder head or engine.

#2. Sell it as a parts car.

#3. Break the car up, and auction (sell) the components.

.