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-   -   what would cause this type of 4 speed shifter failure? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/345412-what-would-cause-type-4-speed-shifter-failure.html)

JB3 10-24-2013 03:49 PM

what would cause this type of 4 speed shifter failure?
 
end cap blew out of the end of the shifter and spring popped out. All this stuff was found inside the center console on the driver side.

how did this happen?
secondly, is there supposed to be some kind of bracket over this cover from the outside to prevent this?

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps35bbccb1.jpg

junqueyardjim 10-24-2013 04:08 PM

Well they can certainly wear out, and the base of it is a hard type of plastic. When I put the 617 into my 240, it didn't take long to see that the shifter on mine had taken a hard hit from something on the road or even possibly a flex disc or in some other way the drive shaft may have hit the road and flew back up leaving extreme "scar" marks on the bottom of the car . The bottom piece on mine was broken, but it still held together and it would shift with difficulty. I bought a new plastic bottom piece, (the mount) and a few inner pieces. I can no longer show you the pieces because the "Russian" web site listing of Mercedes cars no longer has the diagrams up. I imagine the MB ordered them removed. That is to bad because I loved to use them and look at all the various assemblies - but no more. Now all you can get is major part numbers and vague description names like "gasket" or "pin" or washer. It is pretty much useless now.

JB3 10-24-2013 04:17 PM

so rummaging around, I found the 4-speed shifter out of my 115, which had the endcap looking like this-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps517c511b.jpg

However, it has the same problem, looks like this piece is supposed to be a hat type bushing, and this one was also broken-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f4e8b21.jpg

Here is the bushing I found on an old PP sale ad (how useful is this site, amazing)-
part number 115 267 07 50

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2bdf82e.jpg

looks like I need to order this above specific piece, and probably 115 267 22 50 which holds the other side of the spring.

Is there no bracket to hold the back side of this plastic piece? I don't remember one, but then again I grabbed this shifter through mail and converted an automatic, so its possible im missing some bracket that went with the shifter assembly

JB3 10-24-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim (Post 3228607)
Well they can certainly wear out, and the base of it is a hard type of plastic. When I put the 617 into my 240, it didn't take long to see that the shifter on mine had taken a hard hit from something on the road or even possibly a flex disc or in some other way the drive shaft may have hit the road and flew back up leaving extreme "scar" marks on the bottom of the car . The bottom piece on mine was broken, but it still held together and it would shift with difficulty. I bought a new plastic bottom piece, (the mount) and a few inner pieces. I can no longer show you the pieces because the "Russian" web site listing of Mercedes cars no longer has the diagrams up. I imagine the MB ordered them removed. That is to bad because I loved to use them and look at all the various assemblies - but no more. Now all you can get is major part numbers and vague description names like "gasket" or "pin" or washer. It is pretty much useless now.

thats a pretty major hit! sounds like a flex disc going at some point, pretty protected area otherwise.

This little hat type bushing is the consistency of old rubber cement now, its really pliable and soft. I wonder if it started out as that consistency?

Im trying to rig a temporary solution for now, so I can drive the car in the meantime while waiting for the bits

junqueyardjim 10-24-2013 06:40 PM

Yes it is quite pliable when new. Make sure you have the correct washer that fits inside the hat shaped cap. It will last about two weeks without that washer

1960mog 10-24-2013 06:48 PM

My 240 had the same problem when I bought it.
The spring pushed the shaft all the way through the side of the center console.
I just put a hose clamp all around the shifter base to hold the spring in.
It's holding up for the last 100000 miles and 14 years.

bricktron 10-24-2013 08:16 PM

hey, i have that white plastic hat here (new) and no use for it, can i beat the price of wherever you were going to order it?

P.S. it's not needed ;)

charmalu 10-25-2013 12:46 AM

Now that you have a new one, wonder if a Brass/Bronze bushing could be made using the plastic one for dimentions?
Would definately last longer.


Charlie

JB3 10-25-2013 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricktron (Post 3228726)
hey, i have that white plastic hat here (new) and no use for it, can i beat the price of wherever you were going to order it?

P.S. it's not needed ;)

its not needed in the sense that the car is drivable without it, sure. Even the spring isn't needed by that criteria.

Im thinking this thing blew out the first time I put this car in reverse 15k ago when this car was converted to 4-speed, reverse lockout has always had to be manually undone, and shifting has always been clunky. The spring hasn't been in there all that time.

In the sense of making shifting smooth and easy, its definitely required though. The spool that the shifter works off of is supported on one side by this bushing, without it, it can clunk around, and some of your shifting energy goes towards that play, not towards shifting gears.

I pulled the less destroyed, but still damaged hat bushing out of the end of the 115 shifter assembly, and put it into the 123 shifter to support the end of the spool or rod. To keep the spring in place without popping out this new 2nd torn bushing, I made this little plate to hole it in place. That sucker isn't going anywhere now, no matter how destroyed it is.

Shifts like a dream now, might as well be new for the amount of difference over previously. If you have that bushing and its missing, id install it personally.

plate-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2b72048.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f801e8a.jpg

installed with the other brackets-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ea2f03c.jpg

Treeman 12-30-2013 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3 (Post 3228609)
so rummaging around, I found the 4-speed shifter out of my 115, which had the endcap looking like this-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2bdf82e.jpg

looks like I need to order this above specific piece, and probably 115 267 22 50 which holds the other side of the spring.

Is there no bracket to hold the back side of this plastic piece? I don't remember one, but then again I grabbed this shifter through mail and converted an automatic, so its possible im missing some bracket that went with the shifter assembly

I just got the cap today, it came with no washer. I used the one out of the old cap. Here is where I am confused. Do I push the cap into the hole over the spring? Reason Im asking is the lip of the cap will become inverted and I assume this is by design to keep the cap in place once it has been inserted. I'm asking as I have just read a "caveman post" and did not want to messup my new cap. Thanks in advance.

Did you happen to measure the clip retainer you made? If so I would sure like the measurements, so I can get one made.

JB3 12-31-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeman (Post 3262639)
I just got the cap today, it came with no washer. I used the one out of the old cap. Here is where I am confused. Do I push the cap into the hole over the spring? Reason Im asking is the lip of the cap will become inverted and I assume this is by design to keep the cap in place once it has been inserted. I'm asking as I have just read a "caveman post" and did not want to messup my new cap. Thanks in advance.

Did you happen to measure the clip retainer you made? If so I would sure like the measurements, so I can get one made.

you have to disassemble the whole unit and put the hat bushing in from the other side. Id take some pictures while you do it, nothing worse than putting the wrong lever in the wrong place, but its fairly easy to disassemble, and a little bit of a pain to put the thing back together.

i don't have any measurements, I just cut to fit using some tin snips and a section of thin steel

Treeman 12-31-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3 (Post 3262819)
you have to disassemble the whole unit and put the hat bushing in from the other side. Id take some pictures while you do it, nothing worse than putting the wrong lever in the wrong place, but its fairly easy to disassemble, and a little bit of a pain to put the thing back together.

i don't have any measurements, I just cut to fit using some tin snips and a section of thin steel

Got it thanks for the help:D

Mark DiSilvestro 01-01-2014 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3 (Post 3228888)
its not needed in the sense that the car is drivable without it, sure. Even the spring isn't needed by that criteria.

Im thinking this thing blew out the first time I put this car in reverse 15k ago when this car was converted to 4-speed, reverse lockout has always had to be manually undone, and shifting has always been clunky. The spring hasn't been in there all that time.

In the sense of making shifting smooth and easy, its definitely required though. The spool that the shifter works off of is supported on one side by this bushing, without it, it can clunk around, and some of your shifting energy goes towards that play, not towards shifting gears.

I pulled the less destroyed, but still damaged hat bushing out of the end of the 115 shifter assembly, and put it into the 123 shifter to support the end of the spool or rod. To keep the spring in place without popping out this new 2nd torn bushing, I made this little plate to hole it in place. That sucker isn't going anywhere now, no matter how destroyed it is.

Shifts like a dream now, might as well be new for the amount of difference over previously. If you have that bushing and its missing, id install it personally.

plate-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2b72048.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f801e8a.jpg

installed with the other brackets-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ea2f03c.jpg

PERFECT! What I'd do, even with a new bushing. Then I could cut off the lip and press the new bushing in from outside, avoiding complete dissassembly of the shifter.

Happy Motoring, Mark


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